H3SW: General Graphics discussion

Just awsome
Maybe i missed it, but how do other cities looks in current state of the mod?
I know about dervish ~Ragoon (i dont know how to write itXD) castle, and could you show me other ones?

Orzie wrote:

So here's what we approximately can have for v0.8.

I can't tell where the old ends and the new begins, so I guess that means it's pretty great Good job!

Orothin wrote:

My proposition for Wizard's unit:

Gremlin
Lvl 4 medium/fast walker (350 gold, maybe some special power like breaking walls or something)

In my mind the Gremlin doesn't really fit with the line-up and I think the Gnome is already quite far along. BUT I really like the concept!

The only thing that catches my eye is two very different shades of water - near the castle and below the ship.
Other than that, looking awesome! Good job Orzie


//EDIT And probably capitol shadow is too dark compared to other buildings

Maybe there should be another upgrade for the witch faction (maybe predator mantis) could have a more yellow tinge to it (making the wasp more at home) I was thinking it could have a more unique ability like strike then move. probly no retaliations. This would allow for advanced hit and run sort of tactics and would be very helpful agaist shooters.

btw love the progress (been follwing since december) cant wait for release!

Welcome to the forum xxswwxx!

Unfortunately we're not planning to do upgrade for mantis.
H2 upgrades are based on the concept of training and changing gear and that's the reason why almost all humanoid creatures can be upgraded while monster or animal-like cannot. There are some exeptions from the rule like dragons, but that's a different matter :p

Though if you have any ideas about mantis visual design - I'll be sure to hear you out, because it's currently in wip stage

WIP MANTIS:

I think the tips of the mantis forearms should be the same color as the eyes and abdomin, a bit like the first draft, and may be the body (below the head) should be a bit thinner. in most mantis they are thinner thatn the head.

Orzie, the Knight town screen is perfect. Simply that! You did great on it and it certainly is worthy for our mod

Can I ask about the background of the creature portraits, because I like the one shown here more than the current ones. Did you change your mind or is it just for the picture?

@Orothin I like this concept much, but it looks like tough and slow tank. We already have Golem in Wizard line-up, so I would rather look for some other creature.

My proposition of changes to the Knight's townscreen, added elements from older works.

Spoiler:

Kantez wrote:

Orzie, do you remember idea when Derwish castle townscreen is shown in night, to fit style of image from old disney aladdin game?
Dragging this idea furher you coul'd add new variation of desert battle - during night.
Maybe some derwish ability woul'd let him attack during night with some bonuses...

Of course i understand, that adding something like this woul'd waste much time and effort, and for now no one here is able to do so.
Anyway look:



Not all concepts have to be used, this maybe will be usefull somewhere in the far future or never.

This actually can be implemented with the use of terrain overlays if we decide to make such kind of an object. I of course used that old Aladdin game as one of the references for the Dervish, too.

The combination of the night screen with daylight of units will look strange, I suppose.
The knights screen is good.
What catches the eye:
Shadows on the roofs of the towers of the town hall is darker than elsewhere.
Top of the chimney of forge sawed strange.
On the new stable door some line runs to the window.
Once we talked about the windows at the town hall. Maybe should do standard windows instead of double ones. Well, not necessarily, of course.

Quote :

The only thing that catches my eye is two very different shades of water - near the castle and below the ship.

This is a classic.

How about this townhall windows?

I think I prefer Uhm's variant. I also agree with all of Agar's points.

I also agree, but without moving archer shooting-range back again. I liked it on the left side of the road, because for the majority of the game it will be blank (besides your trees and signpost).
It also doesn't make sense for archers to shoot in the direction of the markerplace



Kantez, no, it's worse then actual one.

AkuAkuIslands wrote:

In my mind the Gremlin doesn't really fit with the line-up and I think the Gnome is already quite far along. BUT I really like the concept!

I've actually made it to fit with the town's music, it doesn't really work with anything else

And I really like the town screen

About the mantis, I know it's already done much, but what was the reason for leaving the giant spider concept?

Agar wrote:

The combination of the night screen with daylight of units will look strange, I suppose.

Is it possible to add an overlay over all of the units to make them fit, like the bloodlust does it? It would be quite interesting.

Night overlay on units coul'd be combined with something like "fighting in darkness" effect that slow them down by 1 point...

Quote :

My proposition of changes to the Knight's townscreen, added elements from older works.

There was a selection of reasons to discard those elements. They are still actual.

1. The bottomleft tree was probably taken by Kivo from the Sorceress, and even despite it more or less fills the corner, it stands out too much. Moreover, when you have an empty townscreen (the majority of games), a single tree stands out too much even more. There is no place for it because the Knight is designed in another way, with flat meadows and high mountains. It's not the Sorceress where trees are abundant and thus don't feel unnatural, with the overall brighter grass gamma and much closer mountains providing an opportunity for the trees to fit.

2. The red ducks were more like an experiment and joke since that was an option to fill the lake for the towns which don't have access to water. However, the animation of the water solves that problem anyway, and the ducks are made in H2 pixel style (adventure map) while they absolutely don't fit to H2 townscreens which are mainly 3D + Uniform Monochrome Noise thing. You already noticed that the Goblin sitting on the Troll Bridge of the Barbarian townscreen is absolutely the same case.

3. The square (roads around the Statue and the lake) was later considered me as an obsolete idea because it looks absolutely unnatural and doesn't solve the problem of an empty townscreen in the beginning of the game. You forget that the roads linking the Well, the Tent and the Village Hall must be a part of the townscreen background and it will look absolutely stupid if the current V-shape will transform to a ring after the City Hall is built. The Statue is designed to be a part of the City Hall, not earlier.

4. Random shrub standing here and there also doesn't look too good for the same reasons as the Tree and doesn't solve any of the townscreen problems. The only good idea was the haystack and the flower bed of the Peasant Hut, and they are considered part of the dwelling, not part of the background.

5. The only issue which is discussable is the Sign Post coming from Heroes 1 which actually might be used as part of the background. There are 2 possible positions for it - near the Well (most logical) and in the bottomleft corner (filling the empty space). But it's already not that required since Heroes 2 background elements tend to be massive, they draw too much attention otherwise.

6. The flower bed near the City Hall is actually a nice idea and can be implemented after some fixes.

Quote :

The knights screen is good.
What catches the eye:
Shadows on the roofs of the towers of the town hall is darker than elsewhere.
Top of the chimney of forge sawed strange.
On the new stable door some line runs to the window.
Once we talked about the windows at the town hall. Maybe should do standard windows instead of double ones. Well, not necessarily, of course.

Thanks, I'll look into it.
The Stable doors are overall a questionable idea so I might even delete it if it won't fit finally.
The double windows are completely okay in my opinion. There are much more urgent cases requiring an input.

1. Trees don't have to be on a townscreen from the beginning, they can appear together with arena to cover an empty left part of it.

3. This square around statue can appear later, maybe even only for a capitol.

4. There is only one additional shrub under the arena and it's only filling an empty space under it. It can appear together with arena.

Also, Archer dwelling hurt my eyes now. It has fixed perspective and in a mirrored version it's evidently standing out among other buildings. The rest is unimportant to me, just don't leave this little horror

Quote :

1. Trees don't have to be on a townscreen from the beginning, they can appear together with arena to cover an empty left part of it.

The area without the arena still remains empty, which leaves a questionable character of such an addition. The tree really looks bad and I would understand if you only posed it as a solution to the empty space. It also doesn't look good if included as part of the Jousting Arena because it will still be the only tree on the whole area.

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3. This square around statue can appear later, maybe even only for a capitol.

Do you really think it's necessary? Theoretically, I could adjust the lighting of the roads in that way so they would fit a little more, but in general this whole "structure" feels very, very unnatural for the townscreen and it would be even more organic if it was a rather wide triangle made of narrow roads instead. Remember that it must look good at any stage of the castle building progress, with my current variant being perfect for the starting setting of the castle.

Quote :

Also, Archer dwelling hurt my eyes now. It has fixed perspective and in a mirrored version it's evidently standing out among other buildings. The rest is unimportant to me, just don't leave this little horror Razz

Feel free to suggest a possible reimplementation of the old non-mirrored form without any radical changes in building positions (except probably the Marketplace and the Resource Silo).
The main reason why it may hurt your eyes is the improper lighting which was mainly not fixed after mirroring the image.

Sir Albe wrote:

Orzie, the Knight town screen is perfect. Simply that! You did great on it and it certainly is worthy for our mod

Can I ask about the background of the creature portraits, because I like the one shown here more than the current ones. Did you change your mind or is it just for the picture?

I just took another cut from the classic H2 background for Knight. Still far from perfect, but I don't see a perfect solution currently. Probably I'll find a better option in the following couple of days before posting the townscreen as our official update. If we are to use H1-styled backgrounds (and Xeen-styled too) as feanor suggested, they should be somehow adjusted to fit to Heroes 2 style, and some - even remade (the H1-styled Knight background is just meh, while the Sorceress' one looks very good even at the current moment). The trouble is not only to fit the creature sprites, but also make the numbers fit and don't conflict with the said sprites, so classic H2 backgrounds also don't work well sometimes.

I vote for non-mirrored archer dwelling.

Also, I would hope we returned to H2 styled backgrounds for the creature portraits. It just fits better that it is the town background that is seen on the creature portraits. It has been like that in all H1-H3 and I think it looks better to be honest.

Amazing!
I just feel strange about the Yellow bell.

Iv had a lot of free time in the past day so i made a very rough concept for a neutral unit- Triton. I was thinking he could be a water based troop whose dwelling is on the water. Would be a tier 5-6 unit. If you like the concept then i made some theoretical stats:

18 attack (balanced because they DO have melee penalty)
8 defense
8-12 damage
2 shots (would throw trident)
45 health
6 speed
Special options (to be decided)
20% less damage from melee, or
Grants Summon Boat and Scuttle Boat skills to hero, or
Water-walk (Would allow hero to walk on water if the only creatures in army are Triton and Water Elemental)

I honestly like the idea, it would make the seas a more interesting place!

That's right that seas were a bit boring in H2, less boring in H3 (they added some water stuff).
But... for me it's more like we need the navigation skill to allow heroes to not loose all movements points when getting in a boat/leaving a boat. Kind of, you go to the boat and then you still have 1-2-3 movement points. ^^

Triton concept

Orzie, how is going work on implementing a Knight townscreen? I came upon a new idea how to fill the left part of the screen without turning Archery Range.

Spoiler: