H3SW: General Graphics discussion

There is a certain set of observations about Heroes 2 concept and style which I used while designing the Witch faction.

You can read them here.

In short words, there are not many options for the Witch left in Heroes 2 concept basis. If you try to adjust it with D&D concepts, it may lose the Heroes 2 feel completely. H2 is a simple, maybe even a bit childish game.

There is one more creature which may still appear instead of the Mantis, but we will see.

Yonderbrack wrote:

And whole town screen looks like a tea spilled over impressionist art related to H3 Fortress.

I laughed so hard

Okay, one more question. Do you consider adding more of this cool H3 feature when some city buildings show-up upon building next levels of Town Hall? I noticed it at Knight's castle and it got my heart at the very first moment I saw that <3

Also wanted to post it as a bug but maybe should ask about it here. Why Gnomes in Wizard's castle live in a Tar pit? Which is called... Mushroom House >.> ?

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Also wanted to post it as a bug but maybe should ask about it here. Why Gnomes in Wizard's castle live in a Tar pit? Which is called... Mushroom House >.> ?

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Okay, one more question. Do you consider adding more of this cool H3 feature when some city buildings show-up upon building next levels of Town Hall? I noticed it at Knight's castle and it got my heart at the very first moment I saw that <3

Probably more no than yes. We need to fill the townscreens somehow, but at the same time we cannot allow ourselves to follow different rules for different castles. And we can see that the Dervish is fine on its own (will still be updated over time).

There's no Heretic discussion, so writing note here: if using Behemoth in its lineup (as Orzie mentioned, it being shaggy may make it and Werewolf look derivative), maybe give it a "gigeresque" texture/traits, both for great look and a nod to the "aliens" lore.
Idk on color, but I imagine black with red accents.

One more, probably even more unnecessary suggestion: Satir, while nice, kills an entire design direction that could be taken with Heretic creature. So maybe replace it with a "generic" (enough to not register as a creature when thinking up options), good in fairy-tale environment option: capricorn.
Heroes II has no proper water-aligned creatures, and it can live in a pretty fountain dweling to fill out the townscreen. And it can be drawn to de-emphatise the "hybrid"-ness, as it is not really such, but a type of makara (sea monsters with heads resembling various animals), so drawing it like you did Manticore will work.

Will H3SW share creature or other graphics with fheroes2?

Don’t know, this is a matter of discussion. These graphics cost a lot of working hours for the team, and to this day remain the project’s business card, so to say. Less reasons to play the mod equals less value of our work and our ideas, general design and specific vision of the atmosphere included. I defended my vision countless times, and I had arguments even within the team. The Witch, as unfinished as she currently is, is not just a “7th castle”, it’s also a faction, a specific plot device for our new campaigns, a gameplay niche for H3SW asymmetrical gameplay model, a lore-proof addition to the game, a subtle reference to Kyrandia franchise, a history, a problem, and also a solution. Another H2 projects can have their Witches, more Halloween or Grimdark themed, but that one is ours.

It also hurts to see graphic materials being used elsewhere and promoting another project as if it belongs from day one. It costed the team and especially myself a lot. I’d prefer to give away unused, outdated materials or create some as a gift, specifically for any project. That’s how the Cyborg ended in Project Ironfist: I didn’t see an opportunity to use it for H3SW, but wanted it to be used.

Regarding code, it’s another story for me personally. When mods have shared programming features, every project becomes cool and the players are happy from a more qualified experience, e.g. more cool features for everyone. For graphics and designs - it’s another story, a designer’s vision is a unique thing.
Programmers might have another point of view though, I am pretty sure at least some of them do features exclusively for their project for a similar reason as myself.

With the recent incorporation of Leonardo AI to our working process, the speed of graphic development has been increased 20-fold.

Disclaimer: shown assets are work-in-progress drafts and may or may not appear in the next version of H3SW after necessary 2D treatment.

Some results from the last 7-10 days:

Portraits:

Artifacts:

Finalized artworks which are definitely to appear in the next mod version:



Much more cool stuff is on the way.

I see a few male elves. Will they be knights or sorceresses? Also, there are many sorcerress/witch portraits; will these replace the current ones or be used for Gelu, Adrienne and such?

Let it be a tiny guessing game.

We have no plans for any Heroes 3-specific characters like Gelu or Adrienne. It will be better to have our own special characters, both because it will be easier to avoid retconning the lore and it will be cooler to have our own ideas and maintain our own atmosphere, which is pretty different.

You see, H3SW is not "Heroes 3 with Heroes 2 graphics". We try to make it as a spiritual successor of Heroes 2, at least in terms of graphic and sound design. In terms of gameplay, the game is closer to H3 now, but only because we are limited technically. Some curiosities are supposed to appear if we solve our problems.

What I meant by "used for Gelu, Adrienne, and such" is that the portraits will be used to create heroes that will fill the vacant spots of Gelu, Adrienne and others. None of the portraits even resemble Gelu, so it would be weird to assume that one of them is supposed to be him.

That will depend on the new campaigns and their plot. Not the old ones, because there are only 4 slots for campaign heroes, and some for PoL, if we decide to incorporate some in the regular rosters.

Since the team was satisfied enough with this collage and asked me to make it public, here are some goodies.

This collage is done just to crystallize our design direction for the Witch a little bit more and provide some idea on how the actual H3SW Witch townscreen could possibly look. This version is probably the last before we start sketching the actual design and composition so it could be implemented via 3D, 2D, and neural artwork combined.

What I personally like here is:

- Green sky with magenta and yellow tint
- Approximate coastal line, including the zone near the castle gates (finally a solution allowing the moat to appear natively without breaking the composition)
- Multi-story pagoda style for round buildings and huts
- Wooden bridge at the foreground (Might and Magic 8 Dagger Wound Island vibes here)
- Swamp style brick texture on the pyramid/altar placeholder
- Toltec/mesoamerican style texture on the red mage guild placeholder

What to expect from a "real" version in future:

- More Polynesian/Mesoamerican landscape and architecture
- More Quetzalcoatl and Aztec vibes to accommodate the creatures, heroes and overall Witch vibe so it's not Fortress even further
- Less urbanistic and more cult-ish design (because we have Cult of Tsantsa to feature here)
- Marketplace floating on water
- Improved or even redone Castle shape so that it's more eclectic, fortified and probably less looking like a museum

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Basically what I did here is that I spent about two weeks worth of evenings trying to squeeze Leonardo for ideas combining our vision for the Witch, based mostly on Polynesian, Mesoamerican and Indo-Chinese concepts. The buildings here don't represent it close enough, but some definitely do.

Here are some of the most prominent source images I used for this take.:

As you can see, it's no fun and rainbows sometimes, but the AI definitely has a 15% chance for a critical hit. I don't think I could come to an idea of round pagoda buildings myself (the biggest one will be the Lizardman dwelling I think, upgradeable), so it's all for the better.
Green sky is vibey as fuck too, we should definitely have it. Initially I was inclined towards midnight and Van Gogh-esque style for the sky, and got some good results, but I think that having a nice gradient for the green sky is better. Partially because Leonardo does bad lighting for midnight scenes, too. It also doesn't understand how Polynesia and Angkor Wat (to a less extent) look at midnight.

sky examples:

There are bad news, too. Unless I purchase a paid plan of the neural network I work with and get accustomed to its paid features including creative upscales and 10 trainings per month, we will not be able to produce images with acceptable quality which could need only 1-4 hours per building like we had with hero portraits and artifacts. Currently, there is a lot of blur and the only one case I was able to get "that one resolution" was with a building of a bad and repetitive design (kinda reminiscent on Warlock Mage guild level 1). When I downscale it, it has that perfect texture which fits the style by 100%.

example:

Well done! I think that style will fit nicely.

The architecture and nature displayed does seem to work really well with the faction while giving it a good distinct look that befits HoMM2.