H3SW: General Graphics discussion

Current situation with the Witch lineup in static. Agar's suggestion is also kept in mind for the upgraded form.
I might have a decision which is probably not so liked by the rest of the community concerning the fate of the Gorgon, but that's for later.

Or something like that. Well, there's body proportions better I think. And the simpler clothes.

Yep, that's better.

The Lizardman Warrior, however, is likely to receive a native American-styled feather hat just like the previous variant had.
Same for the skin color.



That's why I don't know if we ever should change the comb. The Lizardman is already not so tall so this loss of pixels won't do any good.

I prefer Orzie's variant. Looking not so simple and with "wild", reptilian face.

Agar probably intends that I will have to adjust his variant just after

Anyways, I'll see what I can do. The costume may really need such an improvement, and I'll have to think about the comb.

Uhm wrote:

I prefer Orzie's variant. Looking not so simple and with "wild", reptilian face.

Me too. I think the skin colour change is also a nice improvement. Since the light blue clothes and green skin don't contrast at all, the line-up in total becomes a bit too green overall, which makes it look a bit shallow. Faction line-ups in Heroes 2 have some more diversity. But this is a relative thing, so if the Gorgon change Orzie has in mind is also colour wise, this problem could be no more.

The color change for the Lizardman Warrior is not only a reference to H3, but also it's a nice trick to enrich the Witch's lineup color scheme. Too much green is not an option for H2, we risk too much in this case. Swamp turquoise color organically fits there so I guess there shouldn't be problems.


The Gorgon change may be not only color wise, but concept wise as well. This is going to be presented in the next update.

Currently, one major problem with the Gorgon is that its lower part is empty (unlike the Cavalry), while the Toad has its lower part filled acceptably good. This makes Gorgon look weaker than the Toad, and not only weaker, but also unfitting to the rest of the lineup. There is no safe decision, and this may somehow break the planned gameplay (sorries to Sir Albe). However, this decision must be made.

I also must mention that the Gorgon is a D&D creature and in fact don't fit to Heroes 2 classic fairy-tale theme. There are a lot of other reasons, too.

I'm looking forward to this new concept of yours. And I value the arguments that you came up with. When I think about it, the fairytale theme is indeed more distinguishably present in H2 than in H3. And therefore the way it should be. However, the Beholder which you guys added to the Warlock line-up is the exception in this? Or will it also be replaced?

Yes, this is a lore-wise exception. Did you play Might&Magic 6?

Nope, never had the opportunity. Should I?
I presume the Beholder is present in that game?

Yes, it was Agar's creation back in the time.

You see, that game was also created by New World Computing and it is related plot wise to Heroes of Might and Magic, continuing its storyline. Although there are not so much graphical similarity, that game continues the story of Enroth after The Succession Wars and first introduces the Kreegans (yes, H3 RoE was not the first game to introduce Kreegans). It also explains why Roland is absent in RoE.

The plot of new campaigns planned for Heroes 3 The Succession Wars is tightly connected with the events of Might and Magic VI, and thus we have a selection of some creatures which may not perfectly fit to the H2 concept (like the Black Knight, although in my opinion it looks H2 enough). The Beholder is a harder case, but still I would like to save it for the sake of lore and gameplay enrichment. H3 Beholder concept is harder to put in Heroes 2 graphic style because of the tentacles and overall pink gamma.

Looks very good so far. I see a lot of potential in the Lizardman that Orzie shows. Personally I also would keep the comb for the basic version while also making the upgrade dark turquoise. Some feathers or whatever fits will also suit it nicely

Orzie, no need to say sorry to me regarding the creature balance. I am always up for improvements and new and better ideas. Also I think it would be better to come up with a new concept, since the Gorgon is the creature in the line-up that stands most out of the classic H2 feel.

The Gorgon is not really a D&D idea. Even in Wikipedia (link) it states that they are made from
Khalkotauroi + Catoblepas.

buffkaz wrote:

Nope, never had the opportunity. Should I?  
I presume the Beholder is present in that game?

Regarding mm6, yes, you definitely should! By far the best game in the franchise for me. Sunk countless hours to it. Even with mods. Finished it more than 4 times... It's really new world's computing jewel, along with homm2 imo. Though I admit that the sequels mm7 and homm3 were also polished in many ways in terms of gameplay. Still, nothing can beat the soundtracks and overall feeling of mm6/homm2.

Gorgons:
They also existed in dnd though. And I never liked the fact that they were different than the human gorgons in Greek mythology. Such a distortion there, almost like a misunderstanding.
Overall, I kinda agree that the Gorgon does not really fit the H2 graphics/world as much as the other creatures here. If the Gorgon "does" eventually go away and we are confronted with new Unit options, I'd probably vote for an Old Hag/Witch either a caster or a ranged unit (or both). Would definitely go well with the theme and is something this Castle could use. Though I imagine the hard part would still be the animation/artwork thing which is always a major issue...

A complete set of Satyr's animation is done (although some of these are not final and will be fixed in the future)

walk


idle


taking damage/death


attack

Wauw, that is amazing!!! It looks very similar to the animation of classic H2 creatures! It is indeed very precise and in great quality. Incredible work Dr Slash

Without a doubt - beautiful! I've got only one objection - the same goes for HotA and H4 - why is he fighting with only bear hands? I would see him with stone mace or spear. But that's only my pecking

Uhm wrote:

Without a doubt - beautiful! I've got only one objection - the same goes for HotA and H4 - why is he fighting with only bear hands? I would see him with stone mace or spear. But that's only my pecking

Might as well give him this

Well I tried using antialiasing. Maybe it became more authentic. Not sure.

Looks much better than the previous version. I like that you use stones in the fundament of the building. It makes it more distinct from the Cathedral. The size is also more fitting than the other version. What still needs to be looked at in my opinion is the roof tiles must have a red color closer to that of the Cathedral and Armory, but it doesn't need to be 100% the same red color, just one that used consistently for the whole town hall

That's outstanding. I am absolutely happy with this update. Only minor hand-drawn adjustments will be required to make the roof tiles and wall texture completely similar to the style of the original game.

I suppose you have done well with the Town Hall, so right now we must switch to some other improvements, like the Arena or final Blacksmith fixes.
Please put the updated Town Hall in Dropbox in the townscreen PSD if you didn't before.

P.S. Right now I am installing Win8 (Dropbox don't update on WinXP anymore), so I don't know yet about the recent updates.

ok, trying to do something with a roof nothing special over. Apparently, it is necessary to finish by hand. Maybe it was in the original.

I put it on dropbox.

Looks much better now. I have no complaints to make

Great work, I suppose you can update the PSD accordingly.

Quote :

Maybe it was in the original.

It definitely was. Just look at the tower tops of the original castle. They are copied and the perspective is broken.



Probably, we will be up to fix all this in future.

A bit more.