H3SW: General Graphics discussion

Yes, he looks even better than his relatives from Tatalia

Suggestions from DF2 forums by dr0n:


Roc-styled wings with a more fitting texture. Yet, the current option still requires improvement. Roc's wings is not what we tried to make while avoiding the duplicate of Griffin's wings.


Legit improvement of the Satyr. Yet, the animations will need to be updated accordingly, probably DrSlash will find time for it.


A better torso for the Crossbowman, fitting good enough (but the strip should be improved a little). Can be pasted to the already available Walk animation with no trouble.


dr0n also points out that the static design of the Beholder is not looking ready for combat like all the other creatures which are somewhat stressed and their upper parts are shifted to the right side a little bit. I think we can make this adjustment easily for the Standing animation (using photoshop's Rotate feature or taking a frame from Getting Hit animation).



New suggestion from Docent Picolan concerning the perspective of the Satyr. The leg posture still requires improvement.

I can't quiet decide between the satyrs. I find the current one very good, and I am not sure I like what has been changed, especially the hairy legs concerns me. I guess they can be hairy, but it seems to much imo. I approve the leg posture change though.

Not all ranged creatures have their daggers shown at their static sprite, so the crossbowman doesn't have to. I think he looked good as he did and I don't find the changes appealing.

I see the thing with the beholder and agrees. A bit sad when so much of the animation has already been done.

I like the changes to the Satyr. He looks much tougher, more like a tier 4 creature than before. Also making him more sharp and hairy is a big step.

But still, today the winner is...

Sir Albe wrote:

Not all ranged creatures have their daggers shown at their static sprite, so the crossbowman doesn't have to. I think he looked good as he did and I don't find the changes appealing.

But that's not a dagger, it's a quiver

Orzie wrote:

dr0n also points out that the static design of the Beholder is not looking ready for combat like all the other creatures which are somewhat stressed and their upper parts are shifted to the right side a little bit.

But beholder doesn't have to, he attacks with a stare unlike any other creature. I've created frame for you anyway, fixed it quite too:



Final fixes to both lizardman, changed shade of the strip slightly and warrior tail & neck

It seems that the Lizardmen by far are the best looking creatures presented in the upcoming beta.

My bad, it looked like a scabbard to me.

One thing, if the lizardman has 3 toes, then his feet are turned too much. I said this before, but I think it applies to him as well. (Sorry, I know I complained about this 100 times already)







//EDIT Ragoon

Better? :

Sir Albe: Better

I like all of the work. The Lizardman especially looks very cool and fits the aesthetic well. His upgrade transition fits well; it reminds me particularly of the Troll to War Troll transition.

In noticing the new archer classes, a thought had occurred to me about the nature of their attack patterns. As we all know, some archers attack once, while others attack twice. Could an archer potentially attack two opponents at once, as in the case of firing two arrows in different directions? That is a pattern we have not seen yet! I do not know how plausible that would be, but I thought it was a cool thought at least!

Keep up the good work!

Aescule, we should ask feanor, because he is programmer.
I'm personally interested if it is even possible, but I would prefer more H5 style of this skill.
So, when making your turn with an archer you could choose between normal shot or area of effect rain of arrows, like 3x3 squares (in H3 it would be like a fireball) with total of 2x damage but split between all hexes equally, so It would be beneficial only in specific situations where almost all hexes would hit.

Ragoon wrote:

Aescule, we should ask feanor, because he is programmer.
I'm personally interested if it is even possible, but I would prefer more H5 style of this skill.
So, when making your turn with an archer you could choose between normal shot or area of effect rain of arrows, like 3x3 squares (in H3 it would be like a fireball) with total of 2x damage but split between all hexes equally, so It would be beneficial only in specific situations where almost all hexes would hit.

That would be awesome. If something like that could be done then it would really diversify the archers. That and maybe elemental effects on the arrows themselves? Another idea, borrowing a page from the spellbook, would be to make a magical archer whose native attack would be the "Magic Arrow" spell, itself. Perhaps the advantage to this would be that it negates defense ratings of enemy units. It could be kind of a every-so-often kind of ability, like the Medusa's Stare or the Cyclops' Paralyze

Aescule, while I was interested in first option, this next ideas are way too much for H2. Remember that the game should be as simple as possible.
And even first option if ever added, should be exclusive to only one creature, upgrade. I'm not even sure which one. We've got liches too, so maybe that's enough.

Quote :

And even first option if ever added, should be exclusive to only one creature

I like how your thoughts flow together with mine.
Yes, all abilities in Heroes 2 are in fact unique except the resistances to certain spells.

Concerning new abilities - some will surely appear in future, but not for v0.8 where we try to make something worth looking and more or less playable at the same time, mostly routines.
Concerning Lizardman's abilities - I had some thoughts. There are some options to consider, but fun fact is that only those abilities which are liked by feanor will be implemented. Lol. Good thing is that the abilities mentioned below still might appear.

- "Shoots back." Inspired by Heroes 4 combat system. An ability to shoot back after the first hit by an enemy shooter. Useful against shooters, especially those who attack twice. (Probably) also working with the Counterstrike spell making a creature able to shoot back every time it is attacked on distance. In my opinion, a nice solution to make Lizardmen worthy enough for 3rd level, since the only useful 3rd level shooters in Heroes 2 were Elves due to their double attack and high speed of Grand Elves. Also contributes to the defensive character of Witch creatures and Witch playing style (in contrary to Barbarian and Dervish who are more attack-oriented). Having a tougher 3rd level shooter with single attack but range retaliation ability seems to be a more or less fitting alternative to Elves.

- "Retreats when attacked". A bit strange option, but I should add it so everyone could see that we at least consider these options. The stack moves back for 1 hex when attacked in melee so it is harder to block its shooting ability (but still not impossible). Also contributes to the defensive character of Witch.

- "Unblockable". A more polished version of the previous ability, self-descriptive.

long-suffering comrade..)

Looking good! Only the right arm seems to be moving too much, which should be an easy fix.

I also think that his hair should be more visible behind his arm when it goes towards the front

Yeah, the plume is pretty long in the MM6 prototype as well.

You can use my projects on dropbox (if you havent already).
I'll post parts here too:

Ragoon, good input all around. It's no good trying to implement ideas if they throw off the balance of the game or are too difficult to implement. Still, it is always fun to brainstorm and to think of new possibilities. The "shoot back" option that Orzie spoke of is a pretty interesting idea. As well as the retreat option after being hit by an enemy melee attacker, because we all know how ineffective archers become once cornered. An interesting tactic that comes to mind, would be an ability where these two potentials are combined, in that (if possible given enough space) the melee attacker hits the archer, the archer then backs up at least one hex, and fires an arrow as a retaliation.

Aescule, that's what centaur did in H5, worked well, but felt very aggresive rather than defensive.

I could see that, especially since the the melee advantage over the archer makes up for the range advantage over the melee attacker. The ability to potentially side-step that might throw off the balance a bit.

Gentlemen, what do you think about some suggestions on DF2 forums? I must admit that this kind of wings fit to the Harpy more, although currently they look a little bit too close to the Roc's ones. The pants still must be recolored, too.



There in fact was another one which I missed (dr0n likes editing his old posts for 100 times in a row instead of writing new ones). It's far from perfect, too, but a more heraldic shape for the Manticore may probably (probably) look better than a current stance. Don't think that the suggested variant is 100% the right way to go though, but you get the general idea.

I like the new wings on the harpy and I don't think they look too similar to roc wings, hard to say with one frame. The brown area between the wings and the shoulder bothers me more.

I personally wouldn't sit the manticore down, it makes him a bit tame. Like a house cat

It's even more looking like it's sitting to take a poo or at least similar to the Toad stance.
But anyway, there might be some solutions.

New wings for Harpy looks better. I would leave her pants as they are, scale visualy fits her well, I don't think that it needs to be changed.

I am rather sceptical about sitting Manticore. It's war! In this position he can only lazily flick his paw on enemies.

Agree with Uhm.

Why would the manticore ever sit down? It does nothing good in my opinion