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Poll
Global announcements should be:
Everlasting, 1 for each project.
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Temporary, when there is something new to announce.
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Holalala... No idea where the Ultimate artifact is.
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 hero movement on map

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badtoper
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badtoper


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Registration Date : 2024-01-03

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PostSubject: hero movement on map   hero movement on map Icon_minitime2024-01-04, 11:39

Hello,

It would be nice if the movement points of the heroes were instantly taken into account on the map and not only in the amount displayed when right clicking on his portrait. Currently it's only updated from the next turn.

You can notice it by removing the slowest unit, the path don't increase. It should have instant result because when you don't have the slower unit anymore, you should be able to move further.

Best regards.
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sirDranik
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Registration Date : 2020-07-29

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PostSubject: Re: hero movement on map   hero movement on map Icon_minitime2024-01-05, 01:06

badtoper wrote:
Hello,

It would be nice if the movement points of the heroes were instantly taken into account on the map and not only in the amount displayed when right clicking on his portrait. Currently it's only updated from the next turn.

You can notice it by removing the slowest unit, the path don't increase. It should have instant result because when you don't have the slower unit anymore, you should be able to move further.

Best regards.

Hi!
What version of fheroes2 engine are you using?
Currently, movement points reserve is updated if you modify your army:
hero movement on map Image10
hero movement on map Image11
hero movement on map Image12

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badtoper
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PostSubject: Re: hero movement on map   hero movement on map Icon_minitime2024-01-05, 06:59

Hi, thanks for reply. I use version 1.0.11, the last one. Yes, I'm aware that the movement points are instantly updated, but the effective movement on the map is not, as you can see in the exemple above.

I can't post links to other site since I have less than 7 days on the forum, so there is links slighly modified.

h t t p s ://ibb.co/3W0BQ67
ibb.co/GTZdntP
ibb.co/gPjZ9BZ

Regards
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sirDranik
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PostSubject: Re: hero movement on map   hero movement on map Icon_minitime2024-01-07, 00:06

badtoper wrote:
Hi, thanks for reply. I use version 1.0.11, the last one. Yes, I'm aware that the movement points are instantly updated, but the effective movement on the map is not, as you can see in the exemple above.

I can't post links to other site since I have less than 7 days on the forum, so there is links slighly modified.

h t t p s ://ibb.co/3W0BQ67
ibb.co/GTZdntP
ibb.co/gPjZ9BZ

Regards

Changing current available points is definitely a big no from me. Lets imagine, that you've placed some slow troops into a hero army, while visiting a town. So you're proposing to reduce movement points in such case. What if it was just for rearrangement purposes? You would have less points, than you supposed to. How are calculations going to happen, if you exchange armies between heroes? What if a hero has minimum amount of movement points left, so adding a slow troop would decrease the number of points to 0? It's definitely unfriendly and really hard for players to predict.
From my point of view this is a significant interference into the way the original game works.
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badtoper
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PostSubject: Re: hero movement on map   hero movement on map Icon_minitime2024-01-07, 01:59

sirDranik wrote:
What if it was just for rearrangement purposes? You would have less points, than you supposed to.

How are calculations going to happen, if you exchange armies between heroes?

What if a hero has minimum amount of movement points left, so adding a slow troop would decrease the number of points to 0? It's definitely unfriendly and really hard for players to predict.
From my point of view this is a significant interference into the way the original game works.

Regarding your first point, only the last composition of your army would be used; the current and actual composition when you start to move.

Concerning your second point, currently, when you exchange troops between heroes, only the maximum movement points (MP) is refreshed. Remaining points could be equal to the previous ones (the amount before modifying army composition) divided by the previous max MP, multiplied by the new max MP.

About your last point, let's assume that your hero has 100 MP remaining (e.g., out of 1200), and you exchange troops so that his fastest one will now decrease his max MP by 200. If you use the previous formula, his refreshed remaining MP would be (100/1200) x 1000 = 83.

In my opinion, only the new composition of the hero's army should be considered. Thus, when giving him slower or faster troops, one shouldn't assume that previous hero displacements are now irrelevant. This would correct an inconsistency and I don't see vulnerabilities that could be exploited and IMHO this mechanism would be more natural and logical, so more predictable. But maybe it introduces problems I don't think of.
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BoseDrache
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PostSubject: Re: hero movement on map   hero movement on map Icon_minitime2024-01-07, 02:53

Max MP are calculated at the beginning of player's turn, and current MP=max MP.
Then you can exchange troops or artifacts and recalculate max MP, but current MP value is recalculated independently.
That is NO to
1) current MP=min(current MP, max MP)
2) current MP=current MP*(actual max MP/previous max MP)
During a turn current MP changes only by moving, using spells and visiting objects (Oasis, Watering hole, Stables).

That's how original H2 works, and, I hope, fHeroes 2 too.
No need to change it. No need to implement mechanics such as "before your hero spends some MP at this day" and "after..."
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badtoper
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PostSubject: Re: hero movement on map   hero movement on map Icon_minitime2024-01-07, 04:11

Yet, it would be totally transparent and more natural. I really don't see the point when you have quicker troops, why couldn't you go faster instantly, by refreshing the remaining points in due proportion.

IMO it's an error in the original game, and not a game design choice, as is an error the fact that when you hire a hero that just fled in the original game, he get all his movement points again for the current turn. A thing that has been modified in Free Heroes, I just checked it now, and it is a design modification.
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BoseDrache
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PostSubject: Re: hero movement on map   hero movement on map Icon_minitime2024-01-07, 04:53

badtoper wrote:
as is an error the fact that when you hire a hero that just fled in the original game
Yes, the MP replenishment could be problematic, that's why it was changed in H3. And, if fHeroes2 do the same, I'm sure it's because it sometimes follows "H3 over H2" concept. Which I understand in this exact case, but don't like in general. Things like "recruit unupgraded creatures" and "zero cost move on the spot" shouldn't exist in Heroes 2.

badtoper wrote:
Yet, it would be totally transparent and more natural
More transparent is to get MP in quantities, divisible by 100 (normal cost of a hor/vert step), or to have it unchanged. How many points do you suggest to add by visiting Stables? I expect exactly 400, no matter what are my max MP and current MP before visiting.

By the way, current MP = min(current MP, max MP) formula was used in H1. It was cancelled both in H2 and H1 TE mod and stays like this in H3.
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PostSubject: Re: hero movement on map   hero movement on map Icon_minitime2024-01-07, 06:43

I agree with you that Fheroes2 should remain as much as possible like the original game. For example, the fact that flying creatures can travel everywhere in the battlemap seems illogical. If it is slow, flying shouldn't bring them as far as quicker non flying ones, but only allow them to move over obstacles.

But it would be a totally different gameplay if it was like in H3. It's the same for the wait button.

So I understand that logic is not allways desirable, as moving turn by turn is allready not logical, and game mechanisms should remain understable above all.

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