H3SW: Adventure Map Objects

Subject: Re: H3SW: Adventure Map Objects 2017-12-10, 09:17

When it comes to judging graphics, you, ragoon and a few others are as good as profesionals. Reading your imput was really interesting and thought provoking. I agree with a lot you posted.

What I would advise is putting discarded concepts, no matter how rough or unfinished in a mod file so people can test them out for themselves.

This and the creation of a "discarded concepts" thread with the things you wrote might serve great benefit.
1)first it will give people inspiration of what is possible ih H3sw
2)more importantly, with your (and others) input it will give pixel artists some very good advice.

This will lead to more and better pixel art in the future. The best part of this is that it requieres minimum work from you guys. Just create the mod file, and dump everything there.

Subject: Re: H3SW: Adventure Map Objects 2017-12-10, 10:00

QUOTE:

Orzie wrote:: Gentlemen, please read the following information carefully, and leave a reply in the topic if you want to change the upcoming fate of the discussed Adventure Map objects.

Dirt Objects

1. I am thinking about removing this house, because its perspective is wrong and there is really no need in another Peasant dwelling. Moreover, it has colors which are treated as flag colors by the game.
2. Will be removed because it is crude, blurry, made from the townscreen dwelling and there is no need in 1-square Gargoyle dwelling since we have the standard 2-square one (which needs fixes, but anyways)
3. Will be removed because it comes from Palm Heroes and isn't really good as the Underground entrance. We have our own cool entrance by Ragoon and Agar.
4. Will be removed for the same reason as 2 (Wolves).
5. Will be removed because it comes from Palm Heroes and we already have a standard 2-square Skeleton dwelling plus the classic Desert version of it.

Wasteland Objects

1. Will be removed because flaggable 2-squared dwellings must be put in Common Objects. Moreover, it's too crude in design to keep it.
2. The decorative houses were an object for arguments once. I would remove them, but for now we can keep them either hidden from the editor (so the Uhm could use them in his maps) or assigned to the Towns section, where I plan to keep various decorations based on castle graphics and roads. In the latter case, all such houses made from town sprites must follow the same fate. The sprites will not have any roles or functionality.
3. Will be removed because it comes from Palm Heroes and there is no need in this obelisk.
4. Will be removed because the design is not fitting to Heroes 2 (too small houses, too simple tones) and we already have a Fort (+1 Defense to any visiting hero).
5. Will be removed (see 4), and also is not working as an underground Cartographer (the map isn't revealed).
6. Will be adjusted and moved to Sand Objects to appear on random maps as the Pillar of Fire.
7. Will be removed from the Succession Wars.pac for now and kept on Dropbox so that we won't lose them and may use them later. The sawmill may be used though.

Grass Objects

1. Will be removed because we have a standard 2-square Cavalry dwelling and this one is in a too simple perspective/is too small anyway.
2. Will follow the same fate as all town-based houses, whatever it will be.
3. This tower perhaps is not that bad, and can be developed further to become a standard 2-squared Phoenix dwelling. It has more potential than the current isometric one.
4. Will be removed because of being an obvious frankenstein and there is no need in 1-square Griffin dwelling.
5. Will be removed because it doesn't fit to the style and has design not fitting the classic signs.
6. The H1 stumps will be adjusted to fit near H2 stumps.
7. You should have been already suspecting that I won't tolerate this

Common Objects

1. Will be removed because we already have a standard 2-square Cavalry dwelling.
2. I will try to create an all-terrain version of this sprite. This sprite will go to Dirt Objects and won't have a flag.
3. Will be removed because we already have a Satyr dwelling. May be used later as one of the banks though.
4. We have a newer design of the Boar dwelling, so these are obsolete. I'll provide the final fixes for it.
5. We don't need a Transylvanian Tavern while we lack the classic Crypt for H3 maps. The sprite will be assigned for the latter.
6. Will be removed because we already have a standard 2-square Mage dwelling.
7. Will be removed because we already have a standard 2-square Vampire dwelling, and it's in a similar perspective anyway.
8. Will be removed because we already have a standard 2-square Bone Dragon dwelling and this design is too flat anyway.
9. Will be possibly removed (or fixed and left in Succession Wars.pac as a custom sprite).
10. Will be removed or used as a bank/conservatory without a flag.
11. Will be removed because we already have a standard 2-square Ogre dwelling, and it's in an unlikely perspective anyway.
12. Will be kept and possibly adjusted to be the only one standard 2-square Wyvern dwelling.
13. Will be adjusted to become an all-terrain dwelling.
14. Will be removed because we already have a nicer School of Magic. We can think about some H1 objects later.
15. Will be removed because it doesn't really fit and we have a newer University.
16. May possibly stay after some fixes as an alternative sprite. Doesn't fit to the grid currently.
17. Will be removed because we already have enough pyramids in the game and have other Altar of Sacrifice designs.
18. The H2 Daemon Caves will inherit the current function of H1 Daemon Cave (Vampire bank) and no longer will be the Medusa Stores which is shown to the right. The H1 Daemon Cave will be removed.
19. I have some doubts about this building, but it is really tempting for me to leave it as the School of War instead of the current Schools of War. It also won't do any good if we leave it as another Dwarven Treasury.
20. Will be removed because they don't fit, and the orange stuff even crashes the game. Yet, the orange stuff can be somehow adjusted and used for some purpose as the Wasteland-only object.
21. Will be removed because it's a Palm Heroes object in isometry. We will need a more decent Cartographer sprite, either from one of the current assets, or a new one.
22. The Black Market currently uses the Palm Heroes sprite and it will be replaced with the H1 Nomad tent.

P.S.

Will also follow the same fate as all castle-based decorative houses.

P.P.S. I may have forgotten something.

First of all, I really dislike all the H1 objects, they're looking like crap imo. I'm talking about common 10, 14, 18, 19 and possibly every other one that isn't on the screens you posted.

My comments on interesting objects:
Wasteland 4,5: After some minor fixes could be used as a wasteland version of the ghost town (like the one half burried on the desert?)
Wasteland 6: Could be taller, but it's a good design, should be adjusted and kept.
Grass 3: Roof should have the same shape as the platform below it. Should have more ornaments too, I could work on it.
Grass 6: Could do that ones too.
Common 2: Please dont ruin it, it's looking good on dirt, but I agree that some fixes for other terrains might be needed.
Common 3: It's looking very good and should stay as alternate dwelling or a bank.
Common 12: It's okay, though I'm not a fan of the design. Should be much darker. Also yellow or green bricks could work better, just a thought.
Common 16: I can fit it into the grid pretty quickly, will try it probably.
Common 17: I agree that it doesn't fit, but the other one is that red strone I'm thinking about then we could use a new design, I very much dislike both of them (the version with the yellow star too).
Common 19: Like I said. KILLLL dat thing
Common 20: Trash
Common 22: Tent barely fits, could use the new design.

________________________
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Subject: Re: H3SW: Adventure Map Objects 2017-12-10, 17:41

Ragoon wrote:

QUOTE:

Orzie wrote:: Gentlemen, please read the following information carefully, and leave a reply in the topic if you want to change the upcoming fate of the discussed Adventure Map objects.

Dirt Objects

1. I am thinking about removing this house, because its perspective is wrong and there is really no need in another Peasant dwelling. Moreover, it has colors which are treated as flag colors by the game.
2. Will be removed because it is crude, blurry, made from the townscreen dwelling and there is no need in 1-square Gargoyle dwelling since we have the standard 2-square one (which needs fixes, but anyways)
3. Will be removed because it comes from Palm Heroes and isn't really good as the Underground entrance. We have our own cool entrance by Ragoon and Agar.
4. Will be removed for the same reason as 2 (Wolves).
5. Will be removed because it comes from Palm Heroes and we already have a standard 2-square Skeleton dwelling plus the classic Desert version of it.

Wasteland Objects

1. Will be removed because flaggable 2-squared dwellings must be put in Common Objects. Moreover, it's too crude in design to keep it.
2. The decorative houses were an object for arguments once. I would remove them, but for now we can keep them either hidden from the editor (so the Uhm could use them in his maps) or assigned to the Towns section, where I plan to keep various decorations based on castle graphics and roads. In the latter case, all such houses made from town sprites must follow the same fate. The sprites will not have any roles or functionality.
3. Will be removed because it comes from Palm Heroes and there is no need in this obelisk.
4. Will be removed because the design is not fitting to Heroes 2 (too small houses, too simple tones) and we already have a Fort (+1 Defense to any visiting hero).
5. Will be removed (see 4), and also is not working as an underground Cartographer (the map isn't revealed).
6. Will be adjusted and moved to Sand Objects to appear on random maps as the Pillar of Fire.
7. Will be removed from the Succession Wars.pac for now and kept on Dropbox so that we won't lose them and may use them later. The sawmill may be used though.

Grass Objects

1. Will be removed because we have a standard 2-square Cavalry dwelling and this one is in a too simple perspective/is too small anyway.
2. Will follow the same fate as all town-based houses, whatever it will be.
3. This tower perhaps is not that bad, and can be developed further to become a standard 2-squared Phoenix dwelling. It has more potential than the current isometric one.
4. Will be removed because of being an obvious frankenstein and there is no need in 1-square Griffin dwelling.
5. Will be removed because it doesn't fit to the style and has design not fitting the classic signs.
6. The H1 stumps will be adjusted to fit near H2 stumps.
7. You should have been already suspecting that I won't tolerate this

Common Objects

1. Will be removed because we already have a standard 2-square Cavalry dwelling.
2. I will try to create an all-terrain version of this sprite. This sprite will go to Dirt Objects and won't have a flag.
3. Will be removed because we already have a Satyr dwelling. May be used later as one of the banks though.
4. We have a newer design of the Boar dwelling, so these are obsolete. I'll provide the final fixes for it.
5. We don't need a Transylvanian Tavern while we lack the classic Crypt for H3 maps. The sprite will be assigned for the latter.
6. Will be removed because we already have a standard 2-square Mage dwelling.
7. Will be removed because we already have a standard 2-square Vampire dwelling, and it's in a similar perspective anyway.
8. Will be removed because we already have a standard 2-square Bone Dragon dwelling and this design is too flat anyway.
9. Will be possibly removed (or fixed and left in Succession Wars.pac as a custom sprite).
10. Will be removed or used as a bank/conservatory without a flag.
11. Will be removed because we already have a standard 2-square Ogre dwelling, and it's in an unlikely perspective anyway.
12. Will be kept and possibly adjusted to be the only one standard 2-square Wyvern dwelling.
13. Will be adjusted to become an all-terrain dwelling.
14. Will be removed because we already have a nicer School of Magic. We can think about some H1 objects later.
15. Will be removed because it doesn't really fit and we have a newer University.
16. May possibly stay after some fixes as an alternative sprite. Doesn't fit to the grid currently.
17. Will be removed because we already have enough pyramids in the game and have other Altar of Sacrifice designs.
18. The H2 Daemon Caves will inherit the current function of H1 Daemon Cave (Vampire bank) and no longer will be the Medusa Stores which is shown to the right. The H1 Daemon Cave will be removed.
19. I have some doubts about this building, but it is really tempting for me to leave it as the School of War instead of the current Schools of War. It also won't do any good if we leave it as another Dwarven Treasury.
20. Will be removed because they don't fit, and the orange stuff even crashes the game. Yet, the orange stuff can be somehow adjusted and used for some purpose as the Wasteland-only object.
21. Will be removed because it's a Palm Heroes object in isometry. We will need a more decent Cartographer sprite, either from one of the current assets, or a new one.
22. The Black Market currently uses the Palm Heroes sprite and it will be replaced with the H1 Nomad tent.

P.S.

Will also follow the same fate as all castle-based decorative houses.

P.P.S. I may have forgotten something.

First of all, I really dislike all the H1 objects, they're looking like crap imo. I'm talking about common 10, 14, 18, 19 and possibly every other one that isn't on the screens you posted.

My comments on interesting objects:
Wasteland 4,5: After some minor fixes could be used as a wasteland version of the ghost town (like the one half burried on the desert?)
Wasteland 6: Could be taller, but it's a good design, should be adjusted and kept.
Grass 3: Roof should have the same shape as the platform below it. Should have more ornaments too, I could work on it.
Grass 6: Could do that ones too.
Common 2: Please dont ruin it, it's looking good on dirt, but I agree that some fixes for other terrains might be needed.
Common 3: It's looking very good and should stay as alternate dwelling or a bank.
Common 12: It's okay, though I'm not a fan of the design. Should be much darker. Also yellow or green bricks could work better, just a thought.
Common 16: I can fit it into the grid pretty quickly, will try it probably.
Common 17: I agree that it doesn't fit, but the other one is that red strone I'm thinking about then we could use a new design, I very much dislike both of them (the version with the yellow star too).
Common 19: Like I said. KILLLL dat thing
Common 20: Trash
Common 22: Tent barely fits, could use the new design.

Very nice idea for the Ghost Town. We will fix it and implement it later (I suppose that it will be a bank in our case). For now, we simply don't have such object because classic H2 banks need scripting.
Using something with trees as a bank is a dangerous story because it's not flexible terrain-wise. But surely we can do something with that.
The Altar of Sacrifice could really use new design, yes. Preferably 2-squared like in the H3 original.

Concerning everything that comes from Heroes 1: these objects are really adjustable and I can do them, like Common 19.

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H3SW: Adventure Map Objects - Page 3 L18zg1M

Subject: Re: H3SW: Adventure Map Objects 2017-12-10, 23:05

I mostly agree with these changes. Personally I would like all Palm Heroes objects to be removed as we certainly don't need them and have much better and more fitting graphics ourselves. I believe some H1 objects can be changed to fit very well as H2 objects. I would be sad to see some H1 objects removed as they are used in our H1 maps. I use the stumps and apple trees along with lava and swamp objects from H1. The stumps could be changed in their style to fit the H2 more, but please keep them in the same shape Smile

H3SW: Adventure Map Objects - Page 3 PLLz5vX

Subject: Re: H3SW: Adventure Map Objects 2017-12-11, 00:52

The H1 objects can sometimes be upgraded so that they look like H2 objects (and this should be done in cases like with the Sawmill). This object can be given a flag and packed as an alternative Sawmill somewhere in Succession Wars.pac, but (maybe) not available for common use.

P.S. We should do something with the towns: see your screenshot. There should be ground under a town, no matter if it was in the original or not. Moving the town for 1 square higher should be enough in this case.

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H3SW: Adventure Map Objects - Page 3 L18zg1M

Subject: Re: H3SW: Adventure Map Objects 2018-05-05, 05:02

While developing several series of map objects, Agar and I have run into a dilemma of sorts. Currently, we have some drafts of the new University concept, but all of them have their disadvantages.

H3SW: Adventure Map Objects - Page 3 Khn6dma

H3SW: Adventure Map Objects - Page 3 Khn6dma

Right now, I am thinking of sticking to v2.1 design, drawing several terrain-specific variations of it because it practically has the less flaws.
v3.0 is also tempting, but it is even greater than a castle in size, which might not be so convenient, especially for H3 map conversions.

However, no one stops us from adding both shapes of the University, with the smaller ones being "officially generated" on random maps.

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H3SW: Adventure Map Objects - Page 3 L18zg1M

Subject: Re: H3SW: Adventure Map Objects 2018-05-06, 05:26

I agree wit hyou guys. 2.1 and 3.0 look best. It's one of the strongest buildings in game, I have no problem with making it look imposing.

You could also increase the stats for the bigger one for +3, that would make sense, also decreasing rarity at the same time.

1.1 could also work, if you remove the middle part maybe. and either make it smaller and fill it in, or put some plants there... It looks to cool to discard, even if it need some work.

At least that's how I see it.

Subject: Re: H3SW: Adventure Map Objects 2018-05-09, 17:15

You mistook University with the Library of Enlightenment. Smile

In Heroes 3 engine, the University is a structure which allows heroes to learn 4 Secondary Skills for a fee.
The Library of Enlightenment in H3 is a structure which grants a bonus to all Primary skills for those who is decent enough. In H3SW, this function is taken by the Xanadu.

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H3SW: Adventure Map Objects - Page 3 L18zg1M

Subject: Re: H3SW: Adventure Map Objects 2018-05-10, 04:40

Versions 2-3 are very good, personally I like v.2.1 best, but it is hard to decide Smile

Subject: Re: H3SW: Adventure Map Objects 2018-05-10, 06:16

I like 2.0 very much, but 2.1 perspective is a lot better imo. If it was tilted like 2.1 it would be my pick for sure. Alternatively 2.1 with 2.0 walls around it would be good as well.

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Subject: Re: H3SW: Adventure Map Objects 2018-05-10, 20:12

the 2.0 doesn't fit the grid... too hight in pixels ?

the 2.1 need to be polished, because i can easily see that's just:
cut the 2.0 & paste 1 pixel higher for 2.1.
Need a blur or something, right now it's more or stairs style... even the windows of the building, look-likes a dance. :'(

3.0 fits the grid, but too large? you mean it give a "massive building" feel? xD
For me, the "remind H4 blablabla" isn't a point, i didn't played that much H4, and even heroes Senatus Populusque R

look-likes any others older/newer HoMM's game.
so... do you mean not enough H2ish? H3SW: Adventure Map Objects - Page 3 164599763

For me, the 3.0 remind me the Dragon's lair. Smile

Anyway, who build the dragon lair? The same that built the university 3.0 ! H3SW: Adventure Map Objects - Page 3 589285140

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~Lands of Enroth~

Subject: Re: H3SW: Adventure Map Objects 2018-05-10, 20:52

When you put the 'unfitting' object to actual grid (built of 32x32 squares) you will see that the object has some sticking ends which don't fill the square in full, but are meant to be impassable. Sometimes there can be a "ghost hero" effect which is not good for gaming impressions.

H2/H3SW graphics are brighter than vanilla H3 so all problems like that stand out even more.

v3.0 is larger than even a castle. The inspiration was Oxford, but I still have some doubts because it feels really like a major bank like Dragon Utopia, and not a structure where you can learn 3 useless skills against 1 useful, to say roughly.

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H3SW: Adventure Map Objects - Page 3 L18zg1M

Subject: Re: H3SW: Adventure Map Objects 2018-05-11, 08:51

My edit, may be of use:

H3SW: Adventure Map Objects - Page 3 M9lfsBS

H3SW: Adventure Map Objects - Page 3 FULdCYT

EDIT//
Changed roof:

H3SW: Adventure Map Objects - Page 3 E8iSoPo

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Subject: Re: H3SW: Adventure Map Objects 2018-05-11, 09:11

Damn, ragoon! really hope you make a comeback one day Very Happy

I remember logging in daily to see the stuff you make! You are so talented, you make all of this seem easy Very Happy

good job!

Subject: Re: H3SW: Adventure Map Objects 2018-05-11, 12:45

I'm not gone, just not on the forum as much as before. I'm in touch with Orzie though and we've been cooking stuff together (like main menu, 3 menu backgrounds, new anubite anims etc.) :p And I can tell you in secret that I'll be more active soon enough Wink

Got exams to do as well. But that's enough of the OFF-TOPIC discussion.

MORE OFF-TOPIC!:

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Subject: Re: H3SW: Adventure Map Objects 2018-05-13, 04:11

Orzie wrote:: v3.0 is larger than even a castle. The inspiration was Oxford, but I still have some doubts because it feels really like a major bank like Dragon Utopia, and not a structure where you can learn 3 useless skills against 1 useful, to say roughly.

I agree!!! It looklikes a building where you may sell/buy units to/from your ennemies!! Very Happy

With Ragoon edition, it's more like a rich place lost in the desert, or something like that. Laughing

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~Lands of Enroth~

» Replacing "incorrect" adventure map objects with new H3SW objects
» [Heroes 2 Bugs] Objects Shadow Not Removed
» Adventure Map Shadows Issue
» [Heroes 2 Bugs] Unable To Reach Objects And Blocked Path
» Creature Quest – The New Adventure from JVC (feat some old NWC members)