~ Forums of Enroth ~
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

~ Forums of Enroth ~

The Enroth diehard fan community
 
HomeHome  Latest imagesLatest images  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» Campaign crashes
Balance of creatures Icon_minitimeby zelurker Today at 09:46

» [H3SW v0.8.2] Game crashes on the main screen.
Balance of creatures Icon_minitimeby MartiusR 2023-02-04, 06:49

» ...about MODDB pub...
Balance of creatures Icon_minitimeby CATMAN 2023-02-03, 19:28

» VCMI with Succesion Wars
Balance of creatures Icon_minitimeby Orzie 2023-02-03, 09:13

» Location of H2 factions on Enroth
Balance of creatures Icon_minitimeby Orzie 2023-02-02, 22:33

» H3SW: General Graphics discussion
Balance of creatures Icon_minitimeby Orzie 2023-02-02, 11:37

» [H3SW 0.8.2] New Ruler
Balance of creatures Icon_minitimeby DanilaRud015 2023-02-02, 07:15

Poll
Global announcements should be:
Everlasting, 1 for each project.
Balance of creatures Redbar110%Balance of creatures Redbar12
 0% [ 0 ]
Temporary, when there is something new to announce.
Balance of creatures Redbar11100%Balance of creatures Redbar12
 100% [ 6 ]
Holalala... No idea where the Ultimate artifact is.
Balance of creatures Redbar110%Balance of creatures Redbar12
 0% [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 6
Most Viewed Topics
H3SW: General Graphics discussion
Ragoon's Graphics For HoMM3SW
Introduce yourself
H3SW General Discussion
H3SW Map List: Work in progress
H3SW: Dwelling Development
Forum Admins Feed
Enrothian Fan Art
Heroes III: The Succession Wars v0.8.1 Beta
The Floody Land

 

 Balance of creatures

Go down 
4 posters
AuthorMessage
GodRage
Webmaster
Webmaster
GodRage


Messages : 1033
Quality Points : 228
Registration Date : 2009-09-21
Location : France

Balance of creatures Empty
PostSubject: Balance of creatures   Balance of creatures Icon_minitime2015-06-30, 04:48

Hi Smile

I was wondering about theses unbalanced creatures in H2, so I did patches to balance them.
And finally I found to ways of "balance" :


1/ Nostalgic
Almost nothing to balance, reducing the cost of magic guild, creatures may get or loose few stats...
Because there is a category of players for who this unbalanced creatures is an important point of the H2's attractiveness. Smile

2/ H3 style
All creatures must be balanced like it was balanced in H3.
So, Titans, Black Dragons, Phoenixes, Cyclops, Paladins,etc, must have more or less same HP !
Because there players who plays H3 and not H2 only because of that !



When I asked for peoples opinions in the french community (ArchangelCastle) I felt like most of people had interest in the H3 style balancing. Smile

H2Ironfist allow to make your own balancing of the game... Great! But, then, playing a map with your own "version" make you unable to share the result, because nobody knows what version you used.. (maybe you put 500hp on black dragon and price at 0 gold?.. Who knows..)

So I think it would good that we make a "main balance version"...


And.. I would say the same for H3SWmod because creatures have same stats as the original H2 game.


ps/edit:
That's also why I don't play that much Heroes II (note enough time to make a huge balance patch alone), and barely never tournaments because using PoL 2.1 seems to be good for playing Wizard or Warlock only... (so, I am in the category 2, people who would enjoy an H3 style balance of creatures ^^)

________________________
~Lands of Enroth~


Last edited by GodRage on 2015-06-30, 04:54; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
http://homm2.free.fr
Orzie
Master Modder
Master Modder
Orzie


Messages : 2119
Quality Points : 831
Registration Date : 2014-12-12
Age : 31
Location : Turkey

Balance of creatures Empty
PostSubject: Re: Balance of creatures   Balance of creatures Icon_minitime2015-06-30, 04:52

In H3SW the stats are going to be changed. The initial Mister Kalu's idea about keeping H2 stats is lame and it wouldn't make any good result because Heroes 3 mechanics is just different.

Still, I am in doubt about making balance changes without a proper multiplayer statistics. Either we leave stats in a classic way for now, or make a major series of multiplayer games to obtain decent statistics.

You know, even in Russian community nobody managed to create a Tournament Edition because of many arguments between players since H2 balance is too hard to understand only with pure analytics. Unlike Heroes 1 where the Tournament Edition actually exists and there are even some offline tournaments featuring it.

________________________
Balance of creatures L18zg1M
Back to top Go down
GodRage
Webmaster
Webmaster
GodRage


Messages : 1033
Quality Points : 228
Registration Date : 2009-09-21
Location : France

Balance of creatures Empty
PostSubject: Re: Balance of creatures   Balance of creatures Icon_minitime2015-06-30, 05:04

For the H3 style balance : I would say that it's in fact kind of simple for balancing :
more or less same HP for each "tier".
Then after playing some games, we can adjust with others stats... Not difficult. Just very long if only 1 people work on it. ^^

Of course people may say that a Paladin up with 250 hp is too much, they usually forget that it will be 3 paladins/week (same as black dragons/titans), and prices (building&recruit) will also follow...
And also people also forget that if you take Wizard castle but recruit a barbarian Hero you will have no difficulties versus Barbarian castle with Barbarian Hero.. Very Happy

And because castles can recruit others alignments's Heroes, then Creatures should have same HP first. Because HP is the only thing that is linked with damage spells Smile : warlock lvl1 without artefacts cast "Lightbolt" on an ennemy Paladin : he kills 1.
Same Warlock lvl1 cast it on Phenix : he kills 0. need 2 turns.
Same Warlock lvl1 cast it on Titan : he will need 4 turns.
Just to show the link Magic~HP ... (it's Heroes of might and magic! heh! Balance of creatures 1596093194 )

________________________
~Lands of Enroth~
Back to top Go down
http://homm2.free.fr
Orzie
Master Modder
Master Modder
Orzie


Messages : 2119
Quality Points : 831
Registration Date : 2014-12-12
Age : 31
Location : Turkey

Balance of creatures Empty
PostSubject: Re: Balance of creatures   Balance of creatures Icon_minitime2015-06-30, 05:06

Yes, but that Warlock first needs to find that Lightning Bolt spell. It's complicated.

________________________
Balance of creatures L18zg1M
Back to top Go down
GodRage
Webmaster
Webmaster
GodRage


Messages : 1033
Quality Points : 228
Registration Date : 2009-09-21
Location : France

Balance of creatures Empty
PostSubject: Re: Balance of creatures   Balance of creatures Icon_minitime2015-06-30, 05:42

magical arrow? :p

warlock lvl1 without artefacts cast "Magical Arrow" on an ennemy Paladin : he kills 1 in 2 turns (3 turns for paladin up)
Same Warlock lvl1 cast it on Phenix : he kills 0. need 4 turns.
Same Warlock lvl1 cast it on Titan : he will need 10 turns.

The problem is same, whatever the spell. Wink

But anyway, there is 2 ways of patching it.


By the way. The "creatures.xml" file will change time to time or not?
of course yes when adding or removing creatures to the game, but otherwise?

________________________
~Lands of Enroth~
Back to top Go down
http://homm2.free.fr
Orzie
Master Modder
Master Modder
Orzie


Messages : 2119
Quality Points : 831
Registration Date : 2014-12-12
Age : 31
Location : Turkey

Balance of creatures Empty
PostSubject: Re: Balance of creatures   Balance of creatures Icon_minitime2015-06-30, 05:44

The main priority for Project Ironfist now is adding the 7th faction. I suppose, the stats for creatures will be left classic for now. But who knows.

________________________
Balance of creatures L18zg1M
Back to top Go down
GodRage
Webmaster
Webmaster
GodRage


Messages : 1033
Quality Points : 228
Registration Date : 2009-09-21
Location : France

Balance of creatures Empty
PostSubject: Re: Balance of creatures   Balance of creatures Icon_minitime2015-06-30, 05:54

Oky! Smile Thanks for your answers Smile
So it will be "easy" to keep updated a balanced patch. I will work on that soon... (finding latest ironfist version first.. :p)

________________________
~Lands of Enroth~
Back to top Go down
http://homm2.free.fr
Sir Albe
Mage
Mage
Sir Albe


Messages : 799
Quality Points : 437
Registration Date : 2015-07-16
Age : 27
Location : Aalborg, Denmark

Balance of creatures Empty
PostSubject: Re: Balance of creatures   Balance of creatures Icon_minitime2015-07-20, 05:33

It might not be as hard to balance a game like H3 as you think. H2 is a bit harder I guess because of different combat mechanics, but it should be possible. Since the Fall of 2013 I have been trying to make a "best possible" balance proportion for TSWM, but it sure takes long time and even though my calculations are way better than those we currently use, there is still need of testing by pro players.
Back to top Go down
GodRage
Webmaster
Webmaster
GodRage


Messages : 1033
Quality Points : 228
Registration Date : 2009-09-21
Location : France

Balance of creatures Empty
PostSubject: Re: Balance of creatures   Balance of creatures Icon_minitime2015-07-20, 05:41

I would like to see your TSWM balance. Smile
...And to be able to share it with some others people (I'm sure I've friends who would like to try it. ^^)...

________________________
~Lands of Enroth~
Back to top Go down
http://homm2.free.fr
Darmani
Master Modder
Master Modder
Darmani


Messages : 288
Quality Points : 46
Registration Date : 2014-12-27

Balance of creatures Empty
PostSubject: Re: Balance of creatures   Balance of creatures Icon_minitime2015-07-21, 04:39

Before I started Project Ironfist, I helped UndeadHalfOrc with his H2 balance patch, http://www.celestialheavens.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8724 . We may use stats very close to its.
Back to top Go down
Orzie
Master Modder
Master Modder
Orzie


Messages : 2119
Quality Points : 831
Registration Date : 2014-12-12
Age : 31
Location : Turkey

Balance of creatures Empty
PostSubject: Re: Balance of creatures   Balance of creatures Icon_minitime2015-07-21, 04:40

By the way, I already featured it here on the forum: link.

Too bad UndeadHalfOrc is not around these days.

________________________
Balance of creatures L18zg1M
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content





Balance of creatures Empty
PostSubject: Re: Balance of creatures   Balance of creatures Icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
Balance of creatures
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» [Unknown Mod] Creatures Abilities and "Upgrade Path" of Creatures
» H3SW: General Graphics discussion
» Adding New Creatures
» Townscreen creatures
» Make changes to creatures.xml file

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
~ Forums of Enroth ~ :: Modding Guild :: Heroes of Might and Magic II: Project Ironfist-
Jump to: