Navigation secondary skill - Too short to disembark

For years, we were abused by the Navigation secondary skill. The time has come to remedy this.

Without Navigation: the hero in boat has 15 moves.
Basic Navigation: the hero in boat has 19 moves, it should be 20 moves.
Advanced Navigation: the hero in boat has 24 moves, it should be 25 moves.
Expert Navigation: the hero in boat has 30 moves, it's ok.

You remember all those times where you were at one move close to being able to disembark?

We ask for repairs.

With navigation skill, hero should not loose all its movement points when leaving/entering a ship.

I plan this possibility for the Tactics secondary skill, with some restrictions.

Tactics:

Gives extra Speed points to all your troops for the first turn during combat, and removes the movement penalties for embarking and disembarking on boat (the hero can move on the water when he embarks, and he can move on ground when he disembarks, if he has movement points left).

(The value is updated in the info windows of the creatures during combat for the first turn.)

Basic: Tactics +1, no movement penalty for embarking/disembarking to/from boat. Max 5 moves (500 points).
Advanced: Tactics +2, no movement penalty for embarking/disembarking to/from boat. Max 10 moves (1000 points).
Expert: Tactics +3, no movement penalty for embarking/disembarking to/from boat. Max 15 moves (1500 points).

Your tactics - enemy tactics = 1, gives +1 to Speed to all your troops for first combat turn.
Your tactics - enemy tactics = 2, gives +2 to Speed to all your troops for first combat turn.
Your tactics - enemy tactics = 3, gives +3 to Speed to all your troops for first combat turn.

Hmmm if you want to put it with tactics, I would say it must be a combo with Navigation + Tactics.
If the hero has Navigation and Tactics: Navigation lvl + Tactics lvl = movements left. (so, from 2 to 6 max).

Letting 15 movements left seems a hug movement...

I prefer that the skills are autonomous, so no combo of skills.

What was your vision, when you wrote: "With navigation skill, hero should not loose all its movement points when leaving/entering a ship."

My mind was about Navigation skill:
Beginner: 1 movement left.
Intermediate: 2 movements left.
Expert: 3 movements left.

Just enough to leave the coast.

So, you want to be able to attack a coastal castle just after disembarking with Basic Navigation only.  

I think, 3, 6, 9 movements, or 2, 4, 6 movements, as you said, but with the Tactics skill will work better, not yet decided for values.

Unknown_Hero wrote:

So, you want to be able to attack a coastal castle just after disembarking with Basic Navigation only.  

I think, 3, 6, 9 movements, or 2, 4, 6 movements, as you said, but with the Tactics skill will work better, not yet decided for values.

Nooo I said 1,2,3
In my mind, Tactics skill is about battles tactics, not about Ship dis/embarquement knowledge.
Whatever it's Tactic of Navigation, with some movement points left we can attack very close castles/heros... so... Maybe 0,0,1 would be better?

In my mind, Navigation is about the sea. Movement at sea, maritime trade, combat at sea.
So, I prefer that the Navigation skill is only related to the sea.

For tactics, I wanted a skill that would be useful during the combats and also on the adventure map.

So, something like this:

Navigation:

The hero gets an extra movement on water and generates gold each turn, and troops are protected from whirlpools.

Basic: +1/3 base movement on water (+5 moves (500 points)), generates 100 gold per day, and protects troops from whirlpools.
Advanced: +2/3 base movement on water (+10 moves (1000 points)), generates 200 gold per day, and protects troops from whirlpools.
Expert: +100% base movement on water (+15 moves (1500 points)), generates 300 gold per day, and protects troops from whirlpools.

Tactics:

Gives extra Speed points to all your troops for the first turn during combat, and gives extra movement points when the hero embarks/disembarks to/from a boat.
(The value is updated in the info windows of the creatures during combat for the first turn.)

Basic: Tactics +1, +1 extra movement point after embarking/disembarking to/from a boat.
Advanced: Tactics +2, +2 extra movement points after embarking/disembarking to/from a boat.
Expert: Tactics +3, +3 extra movement points after embarking/disembarking to/from a boat.

Your tactics - enemy tactics = 1, gives +1 to Speed to all your troops for first combat turn.
Your tactics - enemy tactics = 2, gives +2 to Speed to all your troops for first combat turn.
Your tactics - enemy tactics = 3, gives +3 to Speed to all your troops for first combat turn.

With your values of 0, 0, 1, it seems a bit odd, only doing the expert level interesting.

Anyway, I think it will be possible to easily mod it to your wish.

In my mind, Navigation is about ship and sea.
Tactics in the game is more about battle tactics&strategies than space managing.

About Battles on Sea with Navigation, yeah it's about shooting from canons, so it's about the ship position to be able to fire with a maximum of canons... But where are the canons in HoMM?

After thinking about that, I thought that a big army should take one full day to enter a boat, because it takes 1 full day to search for the Ultimate Artifact.
And if the army of the hero have few different creatures it should take a little part of the "1 day movements".

Quote :

So, I prefer that the Navigation skill is only related to the sea.

Ships are related to the sea.

Another idea; we also could just need Navigation skill to enter a boat. If you don't know how Navigate, how can you travel with such big ship?
Or maybe, without Navigation, at the end of the turn the ship is placed at a random place... Because Navigation is also about Wind and Ocean current... Not knowing them will result into maybe a grounded vessel...

GodRage wrote:

In my mind, Navigation is about ship and sea.
Tactics in the game is more about battle tactics&strategies than space managing.

About Battles on Sea with Navigation, yeah it's about shooting from canons, so it's about the ship position to be able to fire with a maximum of canons... But where are the canons in HoMM?

It was about the Navigation skill in the context of the game.

GodRage wrote:

After thinking about that, I thought that a big army should take one full day to enter a boat, because it takes 1 full day to search for the Ultimate Artifact.
And if the army of the hero have few different creatures it should take a little part of the "1 day movements".

At the beginning, your wish was that the hero should not lose all his movement points when embarking/disembarking.
Now, you want the hero to lose a full day when he embarks.

Are you going to make 2 different mods?  

GodRage wrote:

Another idea; we also could just need Navigation skill to enter a boat. If you don't know how Navigate, how can you travel with such big ship?    
Or maybe, without Navigation, at the end of the turn the ship is placed at a random place... Because Navigation is also about Wind and Ocean current... Not knowing them will result into maybe a grounded vessel...

This is not a simulation, and the game must remain fun.

Unknown_Hero wrote:

It was about the Navigation skill in the context of the game.

Then, no cannon => Navigation skills doesn't have to do with any fights.


I'm not going to mod H2, too much busy on others things
(ironfist isn't working on my computer anyway )

it takes 10 hours (1 day, during light xD) to move 10 empty squares, but only 1 hour to fit an army in a ship?
So, taking 10 hours (a full turn) to enter a ship is not a "strange" idea.  


There is random things everywhere in the game... You enter a Dimensional Door (the building on adventure map) and you are randomly teleported at another Dimensional Door.  
Okay, it's not exactly same but, why not. No navigation skill = boat is dangerous. (no driver license = car is dangerous lol)

GodRage wrote:

Then, no cannon => Navigation skills doesn't have to do with any fights.

In the context of the game, there may be combats located at sea.
At first, I wanted the Navigation skill to give bonuses for combats at sea. Now, only the Sorceress hero, will have bonuses for combats at sea.

GodRage wrote:

it takes 10 hours (1 day, during light xD) to move 10 empty squares, but only 1 hour to fit an army in a ship?

You forget "La taca taca tac tac tique, du gendarme."