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 Cartographers' Guild

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robizeratul
Elf
Elf
robizeratul

Messages : 185
Quality Points : 32
Registration Date : 2015-07-01

PostSubject: Cartographers' Guild   2019-01-02, 01:25

Finally the newest version is released! This is a great opportunity for many veteran map makers and new people alike to create new and interesting maps!

This is the place to discuss any tips and tricks specifically about H3SW mod. You can share your maps and get feedback or give constructive criticism for others.

For the creators of this mod, this might be a good thread to listen to our thoughts about the map editor. I have been waiting so long for this release so I can finally start working on a map of mine!

Of course, the mod just got released so there's not rush ! All in good time! Now I must go, Enroth awaits!
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dodge
Skeleton
Skeleton
dodge

Messages : 5
Quality Points : 1
Registration Date : 2015-07-26
Location : PL

PostSubject: Re: Cartographers' Guild   2019-01-02, 18:48

Hello,
Since the recent version is not yet the final one, as it's still beta, we can expect even more new content / changes of the old content.
My question here is:

Do we already know that the maps created with beta v0.8 map editor will be still compatible with newer future versions (like 0.8x, 0.9, 1.0 and above)? Or the map editor from newer versions will be able to convert these v0.8 maps? Or some other external tool will be required?

And my second question: is there a way / a tool to convert old H2 maps to H3SW format? Like I've got my own old maps and I wish to upgrade them to H3SW and enhance them a bit with all new features?
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Orzie
Master Modder
Master Modder
Orzie

Messages : 1918
Quality Points : 772
Registration Date : 2014-12-12
Age : 27
Location : Tomsk, Russia

PostSubject: Re: Cartographers' Guild   2019-01-03, 00:59

Hello,

No, you should not be obliged to use some external tools, I think. But I am certain that you will have to maintain and fix your maps every time the mod is updated before v1.0 final version.

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robizeratul
Elf
Elf
robizeratul

Messages : 185
Quality Points : 32
Registration Date : 2015-07-01

PostSubject: Re: Cartographers' Guild   2019-01-09, 06:04

some suggestions for the modders. I have been waiting for years for this mod and finally I got my very old map and I'm working on it again! Here are some thoughts, don't know how hard these are to implement but I would be curious what you think Orzie:

1)add the creature upgrades that are already done to the map editor. Of course disable them for normal games. Stuff like the upgraded peasant, the genie with the hat and so on. I know the last version had many working creatures. Also some graphics that aren't

2)enable the WOG script menu. Of course this should be done with some commands, or by downloading an additional file so normal players don't end up there

3)I do not know how close you guys are with the HOTA team ,but their map editor has some great features. If you would work together, it would be a great thing for H3 modding...however I know it is hard having more teams working to gether...so I don't have much hope.

The way I see it, and I don't know how much work this would take, you guys could have a "modder" version of the game. Simply download the file and add this stuff and other features. 99% of people won't care, but some would appreaciate it.

I think doing this sooner and later would be nice, since many new people are arround now so there is momentum for creating some nice stuff. However If you think it's a good idea...no problem with waiting. I did it for a long time, will do so again haha
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Orzie
Master Modder
Master Modder
Orzie

Messages : 1918
Quality Points : 772
Registration Date : 2014-12-12
Age : 27
Location : Tomsk, Russia

PostSubject: Re: Cartographers' Guild   2019-01-09, 06:10

Quote :
1)add the creature upgrades that are already done to the map editor. Of course disable them for normal games. Stuff like the upgraded peasant, the genie with the hat and so on. I know the last version had many working creatures. Also some graphics that aren't
You are basically asking to undo what we've done for the mod to look consistent.

Quote :
2)enable the WOG script menu. Of course this should be done with some commands, or by downloading an additional file so normal players don't end up there
You are basically asking to undo what we've done for the mod to look consistent.

Quote :
3)I do not know how close you guys are with the HOTA team ,but their map editor has some great features. If you would work together, it would be a great thing for H3 modding...however I know it is hard having more teams working to gether...so I don't have much hope.
It is not possible. The programming aspects are not shared by HotA Crew.

Quote :
The way I see it, and I don't know how much work this would take, you guys could have a "modder" version of the game. Simply download the file and add this stuff and other features. 99% of people won't care, but some would appreaciate it.
We are not going to simplify modification of H3SW for a variety of reasons, the one of them being the consistency of the project and its design. We are simply not interested in people undoing what we've done. We had our reasons to do these things.
Those who know how to work with Era will get there anyway. ERM is still part of Era platform, so that is that.

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robizeratul
Elf
Elf
robizeratul

Messages : 185
Quality Points : 32
Registration Date : 2015-07-01

PostSubject: Re: Cartographers' Guild   2019-01-09, 06:20

I don't understand. My idea was that only those who care about editing the game will look into it...  

For example how does adding upgraded creatures to the map editor effect the game in any way? I am talking about the art that's already done of course, so no more work there. People who play the maps included in the game OR play random maps will never see these things. Only if someone makes a custom map can people see the upgrades.

However as I am thinking more about it I can see why you disagree . WOG was a mess with so many weird and low quality mods. You don't want this mod to turn into that.

The question is then, could you send me a file with the upgraded creatures so I can add them to my map? I can take it from the old mod version, but some upgrades where not released. I am making a single player adventure map, so the more stuff I can work with, the better...
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Orzie
Master Modder
Master Modder
Orzie

Messages : 1918
Quality Points : 772
Registration Date : 2014-12-12
Age : 27
Location : Tomsk, Russia

PostSubject: Re: Cartographers' Guild   2019-01-09, 08:33

Quote :
I don't understand.
Quote :
For example how does adding upgraded creatures to the map editor effect the game in any way? I am talking about the art that's already done of course, so no more work there.
Obviously you don't. There are no additional "already done upgraded creatures". And there will never be, for the most part. You cannot have Upgraded Rocs because Rocs were never meant to be upgraded in Heroes 2. It is a giant beast, which is not shown as intelligent creature.

And we are not making a constructor to satisfy everyone's needs. We make a project with a concept, with a certain idea if you wish.

So,
Quote :
People who play the maps included in the game OR play random maps will never see these things. Only if someone makes a custom map can people see the upgrades.
this can never happen, because the map editor is also part of the project.

Quote :
The question is then, could you send me a file with the upgraded creatures so I can add them to my map? I can take it from the old mod version, but some upgrades where not released. I am making a single player adventure map, so the more stuff I can work with, the better...
There are no "upgraded creatures" in existence in v0.8.0.

Come to think of it. Heroes 2 was a brilliant game in terms of visual design on its own. The lack of modding opportunities did not stop the mapmakers, so now we have such gems as Ghost Planet, Leopoldville, THUNK, Betrayal, Colossal Cavern maps and many-many other which utilize only the standard functionality of Heroes 2 Map Editor (save for Shadowcaster's maps which utilize some hex editing too). And this lack of opportunities did not make these maps any worse. They are fantastically built, consistent, beautiful to watch and extremely enjoyable to play.

Imagination is key. If you cannot make the player believe what is happening on your map, it only means that you need some additional design tricks or learn mapmaking some more. You'll definitely be there eventually if you really want to express your creativity. Otherwise, there would not be such great styles of art like a traditional pencil art. One of the greatest things in art is the way the artist expresses their view with a given tool, not like any other artist using the same tool.

We are giving you the opportunity to create, but we are not making things only because we can. I would understand a request for some additional neutral creatures to fill some archetype niches, and maybe there will be some. But what you ask is excessive: quantity over quality.

There is also another reason: we should not create precedents of adjusting the project for someone else's needs, or there will be more of these people all wishing to have their ideas built in. And we surely cannot fulfill some. It's either part of the whole project on all rightful terms, or not happening.

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robizeratul
Elf
Elf
robizeratul

Messages : 185
Quality Points : 32
Registration Date : 2015-07-01

PostSubject: Re: Cartographers' Guild   2019-01-10, 02:18

Thank you Orzie, I now understand what you mean. This was really inspiring and interesting post, It got me thinking a lot!

Soon I hope I will have a beta for the map. And I hope and you and every other Heroes 3SWmod fan will get to enjoy it! I will work hard!
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Orzie
Master Modder
Master Modder
Orzie

Messages : 1918
Quality Points : 772
Registration Date : 2014-12-12
Age : 27
Location : Tomsk, Russia

PostSubject: Re: Cartographers' Guild   2019-01-10, 02:22

I believe you can make a very enjoyable map. Smile

What actually can be suggested for us in future is for example some new imagery of already existing objects which vary in game, like Seer Huts, or some decorations for terrains to portray the landscapes more nicely. In update v0.8.1, I am adding some new map objects of that kind + probably improving the graphics for the existing ones because there is a lot to improve.

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dodge
Skeleton
Skeleton
dodge

Messages : 5
Quality Points : 1
Registration Date : 2015-07-26
Location : PL

PostSubject: Re: Cartographers' Guild   2019-01-16, 19:18

Hello fellow cartographers, I've got some question as it would help me a lot Smile

Is there a way to convert custom HoMM2 maps (at least the terrain and decorations) to HoMM3 format?
Or the only way is to paint tile-by-tile from scratch, with H2 editor opened in other window?
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Orzie
Master Modder
Master Modder
Orzie

Messages : 1918
Quality Points : 772
Registration Date : 2014-12-12
Age : 27
Location : Tomsk, Russia

PostSubject: Re: Cartographers' Guild   2019-01-18, 05:53

No, there are no automated ways of conversion I am aware of. We also make our maps by manual conversion.

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dodge
Skeleton
Skeleton
dodge

Messages : 5
Quality Points : 1
Registration Date : 2015-07-26
Location : PL

PostSubject: Re: Cartographers' Guild   2019-01-18, 18:02

Oh thanks, then it's even more astonishing that you managed to include so much H1/H2 maps in v0.8! <3  ... &lt;3
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