~ Forums of Enroth ~

An Enroth diehard fan community
 
HomeHome  ChatChat  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» [EN, RU][Offline] HoMM1 Tournament of the Landless 2017 (Турнир Безземельных)
by Orzie Today at 01:32

» How autoborder/autofixer works...
by Unknown_Hero 2017-08-15, 23:31

» Navigation secondary skill - Too short to disembark
by Unknown_Hero 2017-08-13, 22:08

» [EN, RU][Offline] HoMM1 Trade Guild Tourney 2017 (Турнир Торговой Гильдии)
by Orzie 2017-08-12, 16:27

» Happy Birthdays and Congrats!
by Dr Slash 2017-08-10, 11:10

» The Symphony of Heroes - Paul Romero with ochestra concert
by Sir Albe 2017-08-10, 04:08

» Change to the Arena (PoL)
by Unknown_Hero 2017-08-08, 22:07

Poll
"Wait" in HoMM2?
Yes
80%
 80% [ 44 ]
No
20%
 20% [ 11 ]
Total Votes : 55
Most Viewed Topics
H3SW: General Graphics discussion
Ragoon's Graphics For HoMM3SW
H3SW General Discussion
H3SW: Dwelling Development
H3SW Map List: Work in progress
Dervish Faction General Concept
Enrothian Fan Art
H3SW Recruitment Point - Enroth Needs You!
Серия книг "Земли Меча и Магии"
Heroes of Might and Magic 3: The Succession Wars - General info

Share | 
 

 Dervish Faction General Concept

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2  Next
AuthorMessage
Orzie
Master Modder
Master Modder
avatar

Messages : 1505
Quality Points : 641
Registration Date : 2014-12-12
Age : 25
Location : Tomsk, Russia

PostSubject: Dervish Faction General Concept   2015-07-28, 20:54

The Dervish faction for Heroes of Might and Magic III: The Succession Wars
This is a constantly updated version of the faction design document summarizing all faction info. The ongoing development, including lineup details, playing style and graphical appearance is supposed to be featured in separate threads in the Dervish Faction subforum of the H3SW Development Board.


The Dervish - Background Information


Trivia:
 
Background lore:
 
Known persons:
 
The Cult of Baa:
 


The Dervish - Gameplay Aspects


Faction lineup:
 
Townscreen:
 
Hero exteriors:
 
Hero information:
 
Playing style:
 


The Dervish - Plot Developments


Campaign story:
 

________________________
In case someone cares for my music:
Mylinks_profile_page


Last edited by Orzie on 2015-10-18, 09:37; edited 5 times in total
Back to top Go down
Sir Albe
Vampire
Vampire
avatar

Messages : 513
Quality Points : 314
Registration Date : 2015-07-16
Age : 22
Location : Aalborg, Denmark

PostSubject: Re: Dervish Faction General Concept   2015-07-29, 09:21

Great thread! It is a great idea to store information about the factions/alignments (classes Wink ) like this. It seems the lore fits pretty good with the Enroth universe, so it is actually a great faction to have in a H2 styled mod. First I would like to tell you that I am glad to see the Nomad keeping his 3rd level position. We had a pretty long discussion about it some time ago and I am just happy you made it be like that and hopefully it is as satisfying to you, as it is for me. I also really like the line-up it is much better than the 2013 line-up, which I now see has been replaced by a proper line of units, so that is good as well. I would very much like to discuss the game play and strategy for the Dervish with you if you would need any help on that. The units description sound a bit like barbarian, but I am sure it will be different when the actual stats are found. You know can always count on me regarding creature balance, I still have lots of nice formulas which could prove useful for the balance, that I care so much about Smile
Back to top Go down
feanor
Master Modder
Master Modder
avatar

Messages : 52
Quality Points : 63
Registration Date : 2015-06-30
Location : Arkhangel'sk, Russia

PostSubject: Re: Dervish Faction General Concept   2015-07-30, 00:04

I am in doubt on Nomad's ability. It's useless (Dervish will already have native terrai bonus) and, btw, buggy at original.
Back to top Go down
Orzie
Master Modder
Master Modder
avatar

Messages : 1505
Quality Points : 641
Registration Date : 2014-12-12
Age : 25
Location : Tomsk, Russia

PostSubject: Re: Dervish Faction General Concept   2015-07-30, 00:07

Let's remove it then. It was anyway absent in H2.

________________________
In case someone cares for my music:
Mylinks_profile_page
Back to top Go down
Orzie
Master Modder
Master Modder
avatar

Messages : 1505
Quality Points : 641
Registration Date : 2014-12-12
Age : 25
Location : Tomsk, Russia

PostSubject: Re: Dervish Faction General Concept   2015-07-30, 05:07

Removed the Nomad's obsolete ability and updated the WIP render of the townscreen to the latest one.


________________________
In case someone cares for my music:
Mylinks_profile_page
Back to top Go down
Sir Albe
Vampire
Vampire
avatar

Messages : 513
Quality Points : 314
Registration Date : 2015-07-16
Age : 22
Location : Aalborg, Denmark

PostSubject: Re: Dervish Faction General Concept   2015-07-30, 05:56

Wauw! It seems the TS is getting closer to perfection. Still I am not sure the filter is quite like the H2 one, but it is defiantly better than before.


Last edited by Sir Albe on 2016-08-12, 00:30; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Orzie
Master Modder
Master Modder
avatar

Messages : 1505
Quality Points : 641
Registration Date : 2014-12-12
Age : 25
Location : Tomsk, Russia

PostSubject: Re: Dervish Faction General Concept   2015-07-30, 06:00

Don't be misoriented by the render. It is still not 2D-treated.

I already put a quick example of 2D treatment of the old version of the castle in the Townscreen section.

________________________
In case someone cares for my music:
Mylinks_profile_page
Back to top Go down
trollworkout
Skeleton
Skeleton
avatar

Messages : 8
Quality Points : 1
Registration Date : 2015-08-06

PostSubject: Re: Dervish Faction General Concept   2015-08-06, 16:54

looks great!

master genie needs to have that 5%-10% chance to half enemy units. that's a classic genie thing. you could make it less like 3% but it has to be there.

also a suggestion

when making unit upgrades instead of creating new art, just downgrade what you have already. for example rogue is level 2 and bandit level 1. just remove eye patch and cloak and remove no enemy retaliation and you got yourself a bandit.
is much easier to remove rather than add.

even if you make new art make it last upgrade first and simply remove bits.

other names for bandit: robber, pirate, raider, brigand, highwayman
Back to top Go down
Orzie
Master Modder
Master Modder
avatar

Messages : 1505
Quality Points : 641
Registration Date : 2014-12-12
Age : 25
Location : Tomsk, Russia

PostSubject: Re: Dervish Faction General Concept   2015-08-06, 18:57

Quote :
master genie needs to have that 5%-10% chance to half enemy units. that's a classic genie thing

No at any cost. It is an imbalanced feature and it will not be present for hireable creatures, regardless of the percentage.

What we think of is the Magic Mirror because Genies are indeed magical creatures and they will be a high priority target for attack spells.
Or, we could use the Ageing ability which was present for Ghost Dragons in Heroes 3.


Quote :
when making unit upgrades instead of creating new art, just downgrade what you have already

It works in a few cases, but basically Heroes 2 concepts are already maximum simplified. I personally have another idea for Rogue upgrade in future based on the current version.

It can be easy to remove, yes, but it won't look professional. People will always be able to recognize the workaround.

Robber, Highwayman and Raider are names which are not characteristic for Heroes 2. They are too complicated and not that popular. Heroes 2 feature only simplified and most common creature names. Sometimes we have to avoid that rule when adding new creatures because Heroes 3 lineup system features too many vacancies, but in the case of Rogues we have such words as Bandits or Brigands which fit quite fine.


Anyhow, thanks for suggestions!

________________________
In case someone cares for my music:
Mylinks_profile_page
Back to top Go down
revo
Skeleton
Skeleton
avatar

Messages : 5
Quality Points : 4
Registration Date : 2015-07-29

PostSubject: Re: Dervish Faction General Concept   2015-08-06, 22:11

I think it would be very nice to keep the Genie skill as it is somewhat iconic to the H2. However it would be obviously imbalanced so I came out with a few solutions.

1. Nerf it by making it dependant on Genies number.

For example: Genie unit has 5% chance of applying the following effect: Each Master Genie can kill 1% of target's squad capped at 10% with 10 Master Genies  in addition to damage coming from the normal attack.

2. Nerf it by keeping the skill but moving it to the other creature, neutral obviously.

3. Create third upgrade for Genie (much like dragon). The third one should not be accessible from town but rather it should give possibility to upgrade Master Genie from an expensive adventure map object that could obviously not be placed on random maps. Only this last Genie (Elder Genie?) could use that halving skill.
Back to top Go down
Orzie
Master Modder
Master Modder
avatar

Messages : 1505
Quality Points : 641
Registration Date : 2014-12-12
Age : 25
Location : Tomsk, Russia

PostSubject: Re: Dervish Faction General Concept   2015-08-06, 22:23

revo wrote:
Nerf it by making it dependant on Genies number.

Like I said, no at any cost. There is no sense in keeping the ability "iconic" because our Genies are not the same as H2 genies. Our genies are hired in a castle and their amount is unlimited unlike Heroes 2 where you could get a strictly limited amount of them.

Moreover, the number is a farce: in one game you could have maximum 16 Genies to win, and the other game may feature legions of Genies. Heroes of Might and Magic work like that.


revo wrote:
Nerf it by keeping the skill but moving it to the other creature, neutral obviously.

The ability still may be saved (10% chance to halve stack), but only for a neutral creature which is not available to hire or join hero army via Diplomacy. We have already decided this for Ghosts, so they will be left as neutrals, and, probably, they will be also featured in the Haunt spell if we will decide to restore it.


revo wrote:
Create third upgrade for Genie (much like dragon).

Again the same case as in (1): the number of resources doesn't matter because games may be drastically different and the quantity of resources from one game to another may vary in a very wide range. You cannot use pre-defined numbers to regulate such kind of things in HoMM. Moreover, the 8 level upgrades are WoG style which is not a very good arranged solution.

I guess we should make a separate thread for this discussion. However, it seems that this forum engine doesn't allow to transfer certain posts which sucks.

________________________
In case someone cares for my music:
Mylinks_profile_page
Back to top Go down
Rnap
Peasant
Peasant
avatar

Messages : 1
Quality Points : 1
Registration Date : 2015-08-08

PostSubject: Amazing!   2015-08-08, 04:30

I just registered to say how great it was to read those old snippets from MM VI and to see how much care is put into this mod! Your work is appreciated!
Back to top Go down
trollworkout
Skeleton
Skeleton
avatar

Messages : 8
Quality Points : 1
Registration Date : 2015-08-06

PostSubject: Re: Dervish Faction General Concept   2015-08-08, 04:32

Orzie is gonna be great . So far so good. I just had an idea but don't worry I trust your skills . Is gonna be a great mod.

First time in years since we had new content for HOMM2.

Back to topic. Dervish town is great. I like all the features so far so good. And town screen looks great obvs not done yet but I see where this is going.
Back to top Go down
Orzie
Master Modder
Master Modder
avatar

Messages : 1505
Quality Points : 641
Registration Date : 2014-12-12
Age : 25
Location : Tomsk, Russia

PostSubject: Re: Dervish Faction General Concept   2015-08-08, 04:39

Yes gentlemen, the project definitely has a passion towards the Might and Magic series by New World Computing. Still, MMVI is a no less part of Enroth than Heroes 1-2, and it actually provided us a lot of ideas to implement for Heroes 2.

To be honest, sometimes we have to go beyond vanilla HoMM2 concept because HoMM3 features too many vacancies for creatures and too many factions. But H3SW is not simply a "Heroes 2 on Heroes 3 engine" or "Heroes 3 with Heroes 2 graphics". It's gonna be a separate game with unique gaming impressions and continuation of the Enrothian lore so everyone shouldn't be disappointed. So that sometimes there can be seen some new creatures which don't complement to vanilla H2 atmosphere, but be sure that they are the lesser evil in 100% of cases.

________________________
In case someone cares for my music:
Mylinks_profile_page
Back to top Go down
Talanin
Skeleton
Skeleton
avatar

Messages : 5
Quality Points : 4
Registration Date : 2015-02-01

PostSubject: Re: Dervish Faction General Concept   2015-09-04, 03:58

Hello Orzie!

I have read about the Heroes and their missing bios.I like it very much to do this (i have even started a long time ago a book in German, with topics of Heroes of Might and Magic 5).

I also posted my bios in the other forum, but i think this one is more popular?

Nevertheless i will post them here as well, but please show mercy, i am not from Britian or America, my mothertongue is German Wink.

Maybe you can use them? I would be proud if i could be a help in this great project.

Joseph
Joseph was long time ago a very noble lord. One day he discovered his magical potential – what sounds both, useful and powerful, become a nightmare for the once aristocrat. He burned his properties and was forced to go in exile. Luckily he claimed asylum from the dervishes. Now, years later, he is one of their mightiest mages, with an affinity to fire.

Elderian

Elderian always wanted to travel through the deadly deserts of Enroth to find secrets and treasures of the ancients. More than one time he escaped by hair´s breadth – maybe because of his ability to react faster than any of his enemies. This skill he also teach his armies; with great success.

Draconia

Draconia is rather a witch than a dervish. She prefers the putrid and foul swamps more than the hot and merciless realms of the dervishes. Nevertheless Draconias thirst for knowledge was bigger than her preferences – and her fascination for medusas should be very useful for the dervishes. No one can control these creatures better than Draconia.

Martine

Martine’s father was the “false” prince of thieves of Enroth. When the thieves’ guild was shattered, she was forced to flee. Now she tries to rebuild the guild, with great success. Martine is said to be the “new” prince of thieves´ - or better the new princess.

Jarkonas

Jarkonas built a long time ago a great empire by uniting the barbarian and nomadic tribes of Enroth. Nevertheless, even great barbarian kings have to become older and even have to die. His heir was insufficient in Jarkonas eyes to rule the kingdom instead of his father. Rumour has it that in the desert realms of the dervishes there should exist a fountain of youth, and because of this, Jarkonas is travelling with a group of faithful nomads in search for the waters of life.

Ibn Fadlan

Ibn Fadlan is a mage with great energy reserves. After years of studying he was even able to increase his magical skills. Now it seems that he has endless reserves of mana and he is willing to show his talents in the services of the dervishes.

Ivan

It is said that Ivan is stupid, more than stupid, he seems to be empty-headed. Unable to read, Ivan will never become a great mage, but maybe because of this weakness, he can resist magic better than any other one in the dervish realms. This fact has made him a great general in the dervish ranks.

Solmyr

Solmyrs greatest wish is to find a genie lamp. Should he ever find one, his only wish would be to become also a genie, and get magical potential beyond imagination. That he would also become immortal is a pleasant side effect. Only one problem remains – genies have master, but maybe Solmyr can find a way out.

Marcus

Marcus father was the leader of a nomadic tribe in the deserts of Enroth. Their concept of leading the tribe was very different. While his father was brutal and rude, Marcus prefers an intelligent and charismatic style of ruling. The elder of the tribe respects him and he can live in peace with his tribe, until war threats the desert lands, then he will fight to protect his tribe and the dervish realms.


Varathak

A legend of the dervish said that one time a deity will arrive. It is said that Varathak is this deity because when he arrived, the Anubites arrived with him. Mostly he is hiding somewhere in the desert, observing the dervishes, but when they pray and need his help he protects the people in the dervish realms and sometimes he is showing himself, leading the Anubites. Maybe he is really a god, or an other powerful entity.
Sulman

Sulman is something like the arch mage of the dervish acolytes. They worship him, and everyone tries to follow in his footsteps. Maybe Sulman is old, but not ready to die. He will teach his skills and spells to the next generation of acolytes and maybe, one day, he is willing to die, but this day seems to be far away.

Alberon

Alberon was once a lord, fighting the undead in Enroth with devotion that could be called fanatic. His success against the undead hordes based on his brilliant artillery. After the end of the war against the necromantic threat, he was no longer needed and Alberon searched a new task. Nowadays he is showing the dervish people how to create ballista’s like no others which brought him both, riches and respect.

Dalia

Dalia is a child of the desert. She grew up in the hot realms of this hostile environment. Already in her youth she loved scorpions. Dalia was able to tame these animals better than anyone other. Nowadays she is using this skill for the dervishes. Her scorpions are better than the ones of the other generals in the dervish army.

Tumur

Tumurs biggest pride is his armour and the sword of his great-grandfather. He trained with this sword for years and now he can break any defence easily. The sword is said to be magic but this is not the point. Tumur is one of the greatest fighters in the service of the dervishes and magic blade or not, he is a fierce enemy.

Ethania

Ethania never showed her face because of the countless scars. To preserve other people against her fate, she studied healing magic. Now finished with studying, Ethania is one of the greatest medic in the dervish realms and it is said that she owns “healing hands”.

Back to top Go down
Orzie
Master Modder
Master Modder
avatar

Messages : 1505
Quality Points : 641
Registration Date : 2014-12-12
Age : 25
Location : Tomsk, Russia

PostSubject: Re: Dervish Faction General Concept   2015-09-07, 20:47

Thanks for this. I will give a careful read for the bios a little later - currently I've got a lot of problems with Internet.
Just to warn everyone: we have already got bios for classic 6 factions, but the Dervish and the Witch (as well as the back-burner Heretic) don't have them. I will try to compose the Witch faction design document in the following days.

________________________
In case someone cares for my music:
Mylinks_profile_page
Back to top Go down
Orzie
Master Modder
Master Modder
avatar

Messages : 1505
Quality Points : 641
Registration Date : 2014-12-12
Age : 25
Location : Tomsk, Russia

PostSubject: Re: Dervish Faction General Concept   2015-09-24, 19:20

Further update of the Townscreen by Agar. The Temple is going to be remade.


________________________
In case someone cares for my music:
Mylinks_profile_page
Back to top Go down
Sir Albe
Vampire
Vampire
avatar

Messages : 513
Quality Points : 314
Registration Date : 2015-07-16
Age : 22
Location : Aalborg, Denmark

PostSubject: Re: Dervish Faction General Concept   2015-09-24, 21:11

Even more gorgeous than the last time. I like all the changes and I am sure the new temple will look great!
Back to top Go down
Orzie
Master Modder
Master Modder
avatar

Messages : 1505
Quality Points : 641
Registration Date : 2014-12-12
Age : 25
Location : Tomsk, Russia

PostSubject: Re: Dervish Faction General Concept   2015-10-18, 09:36

Next update of the castle. Not much is left before starting the 2D treatment operations.


________________________
In case someone cares for my music:
Mylinks_profile_page
Back to top Go down
NikitaTheTanner
Nomad
Nomad
avatar

Messages : 53
Quality Points : 11
Registration Date : 2015-10-15
Location : Toronto

PostSubject: Re: Dervish Faction General Concept   2015-10-19, 15:58

It's actually really cool, I like it a lot. The ruins are much better now, overall composition is very nice and filled. I guess temple is in progress, right? So I won't say anything about it before its done. I'll just say that the lamp design is kind of strange, especially the stairs. Will they change or stay more or less like that? Maybe it's better without them at all? Although it's nothing critical, maybe it will look better after pixelization.

And lastly, what about the statue? confused Shouldn't there be one, just for the sake of tradition? :farao:
Back to top Go down
Orzie
Master Modder
Master Modder
avatar

Messages : 1505
Quality Points : 641
Registration Date : 2014-12-12
Age : 25
Location : Tomsk, Russia

PostSubject: Re: Dervish Faction General Concept   2015-10-19, 17:30

We don't need the statue. Even in classic castles it was made part of town hall.

________________________
In case someone cares for my music:
Mylinks_profile_page
Back to top Go down
NikitaTheTanner
Nomad
Nomad
avatar

Messages : 53
Quality Points : 11
Registration Date : 2015-10-15
Location : Toronto

PostSubject: Re: Dervish Faction General Concept   2015-10-21, 11:56

Yeah, I am not talking about a separate structure. I just think it would be a very nice easter egg kind of thing if each Town Hall added a statue, even if it isn't necessary from gameplay point of view. Original towns will have the statue as part of the scenery, right? So it would be interesting to see it consistent throughout all factions, even the new ones. Not a necessary touch, but a nice addition IMO.
Back to top Go down
buffkaz
Nomad
Nomad
avatar

Messages : 68
Quality Points : 35
Registration Date : 2015-10-25
Location : Netherlands

PostSubject: Re: Dervish Faction General Concept   2015-10-27, 03:55

I absolutely love this faction. The 'Arabian nights' theme fits right in, it just works.

I got some comments though, but I don't know if I'm supposed to put these here. So please tell me if you're open for suggestions. Because the last thing I want to do is mingle with you guys and be annoying.
Back to top Go down
Orzie
Master Modder
Master Modder
avatar

Messages : 1505
Quality Points : 641
Registration Date : 2014-12-12
Age : 25
Location : Tomsk, Russia

PostSubject: Re: Dervish Faction General Concept   2015-10-27, 04:03

Well, the lineup is not to be changed. Only the graphics are to be improved somehow. Many things fit together with specific creatures put in a certain order.

The townscreen is a little bit outdated, we are working on it.

________________________
In case someone cares for my music:
Mylinks_profile_page
Back to top Go down
buffkaz
Nomad
Nomad
avatar

Messages : 68
Quality Points : 35
Registration Date : 2015-10-25
Location : Netherlands

PostSubject: Re: Dervish Faction General Concept   2015-10-27, 04:15

Line-up is great, no worries.
And I know the town is still a concept version.

Graphical-wise I have just one suggestion I'd like to share: Maybe you could make the Dervish town appear by (a starry) night(fall)? This could improve the atmosphere greatly and adds to the mystery I think.
Like the beginning of the Disney-movie Aladdin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqElJnsUvtE
Just my opinion, skip it if you don't like it, because from what I've seen I have lots of trust in you guys!

Edit: I do realise you said earlier that you wanted this town to resemble some nomad place from M&M6(?). I haven't played the game, so maybe my suggestion doesn't make sense at all.

And a final comment (not graphics orientated, but I just have to get this of my chest Wink). It's strange to put a poisonous creature (the scorpion) in the game and not recognize the fact that he's poisonous. Perhaps a 20% chance of paralyzing the opponent with each attack? (Like the basilisk in homm3, which is also a lvl 4 creature)
https://askabiologist.asu.edu/venom/scorpion_venom
Back to top Go down
 
Dervish Faction General Concept
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 2Go to page : 1, 2  Next
 Similar topics
-
» General list Cap badge
» Most likely result of the general election in 2015?
» General Service Badge varieties
» Hashtag politics and the general election
» Lavrov revealed details of Putin's speech at the UN General Assembly

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
~ Forums of Enroth ~ :: Modding Guild :: Heroes of Might and Magic III: The Succession Wars :: Development Board :: Dervish Faction-
Jump to: