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 Experimenting with the Well

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Kristo
Peasant
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Messages : 4
Quality Points : 1
Registration Date : 2017-10-10
Location : Illinois, USA

PostSubject: Experimenting with the Well   2018-02-21, 15:51

I've long had a theory that the Well is responsible for much of the imbalance between factions in Heroes II.  Two extra Peasants or Goblins per week basically don't matter, but two extra Dragons or Titans is a huge advantage.  Project Ironfist finally gave me the chance to try this out.  I've modified the code to disable the +2 growth from the Well, enabled with a new command-line switch /disable-well.

Disclaimer: I've not playtested this, so I fully expect to have to tweak this further.  If you'd like to try it out, the pull request is here: https://github.com/jkoppel/project-ironfist/pull/106
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Darmani
Master Modder
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Messages : 184
Quality Points : 36
Registration Date : 2014-12-27

PostSubject: Re: Experimenting with the Well   2018-02-23, 03:44

Nice work! I commented on your PR. I agree that the well is unbalancing; good chance we'll use a variant of this in the final version. We had made well-compensating changes in the precursor to Ironfist: https://www.celestialheavens.com/forum/7/8724
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Kristo
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Messages : 4
Quality Points : 1
Registration Date : 2017-10-10
Location : Illinois, USA

PostSubject: Re: Experimenting with the Well   2018-02-23, 18:48

Yep, I remember UndeadHalfOrc's balance mod. I used to play with a simplified version where I just set base Dragon and Titan growth to 0. That change alone made a big difference. Now that the hooks are in place, we should be able to make changes pretty easily. We can change the Well's behavior per faction or even per creature if need be.

One other idea I had was to make the Well's growth relative instead of absolute. For example, what if it was +50% growth instead of +2? Centaur growth goes from 8 to 12, Crusaders and Cyclopes 2 to 3, but Dragons and Titans would still be 1.
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Darmani
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Registration Date : 2014-12-27

PostSubject: Re: Experimenting with the Well   2018-02-24, 09:56

Hmmm. Interesting thought. That's kinda like how H3 does it.

Your change also has me thinking about the plague. You have me considering removing it as a feature altogether. It's a great example of anti-fun: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=293417
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rafter
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Messages : 8
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Registration Date : 2016-12-12

PostSubject: Re: Experimenting with the Well   2018-02-28, 16:05

To make the game - very difficult, I played Heroes 2 Gold, with increased prices of level 5 and level 6 creatures. I increased the prices of level 6- 4 times, and the price of level 5 - 2,5 times. The Black dragon is 17500 gold and 2 sulfur. But even so, if I have much gold, I use level 5 and level 6 creatures. Because 3 Black dragons do 150 damage, while 5 minotaurs do 50 damage. Cyclops costs 3750 gold and 1 crystal. But 4 Cyclops do 96 damage, while 6 Ogre lord do  42 damage. I think, the Base growth of all weak units must be increased for Balance. If you want the game to be hard and difficult, it is better to increase the weekly growth of the weak creatures, an not to decrease the growth of level 5 and 6 creatures. If you decrease the growth of level 6 creatures, the game will become easier. So the growth of lv.5 may become 7-8. The base growth of lv. 4 creatures may become- 10-12.
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