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 Gold economy and dwarven trasure

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YhyJasne
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PostSubject: Gold economy and dwarven trasure   2016-01-25, 00:17

So, we have heroes 2 creature prices, heroes 2 building prices (which are actually pretty big considering how much gold in h2 there was available per castle) and heroes 3 capitol, treasury and generally h3 maps have better access to gold mines unlike in h2 where mines are guarded by strong units*. There is also castle that doubles the creature growth making camping strategy more favourable, which I would like to avoid, because in this rate it will simply outplay other strategies.

Heroes 2 creatures have also higher difference in power looking at level 1 to 6 creatures.
their growth naturally favours units like dragons making a power turn whenever you build level 6 dwelling like green tower, While in h3 you can do much more with level 1-2 creatures, because you have more natural growth and castle that makes them significant portion of your army (also their stats are a bit higher having 10 health on some units)

I have a suggestion that may work with the mod better, because it wants to combine h2 and h3 strategies being something like heroes 2.5**. I think that castle should give +2 of each creature (and citadel accordingly +1) and capitol give something like +2000 gold in total. In result, we will have diversity in strategies making exploring and camping more of an equal strategy choice and less powercreep between strong and weak creatures (mostly looking at level 1 to 7) which was enormous in h2. The castle and citadel could also cost less gold (and maybe resources).

There is also known tactic for heroes 3 that consists in rushing capitol and dwarven treasury. Will it be available in the mod? Why? why not? How much gold should it cost? Will there be dungeon available to warlock castle? how much gold should it give? and what does statue do?

*unconfirmed, I rely on my memory from h2
**waiting for team to make a statement on general strategy
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YhyJasne
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PostSubject: Re: Gold economy and dwarven trasure   2016-01-25, 01:16

Also, from earlier version, I remember, there was an major issue with castle and standard h2 growth rate. The level 2-3 creatures were more significant than level 7 creatures to an unplayable level. You simply didn't need to buy level 5+ dwellings, cause lower level were much stronger than higher level, which was really bad. I wonder how is this issue solved in the mod currently.
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robizeratul
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PostSubject: Re: Gold economy and dwarven trasure   2016-01-25, 03:11

first lets see what they will do in the 0.8 version. I guess ballancing is an issue, but not a huge one...there are many important things that have to bedone!
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YhyJasne
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PostSubject: Re: Gold economy and dwarven trasure   2016-01-25, 03:29

I want to know how the things will look and to open a discussion on the topic. Well those things matter from the gameplay point of view
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Sir Albe
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PostSubject: Re: Gold economy and dwarven trasure   2016-01-25, 04:06

First I will remind you that a lot of what you mention here was discussed two years ago in the old forum: Link I can tell you so much that it is very unlikely that we will change from castle growth to well growth. The arguments for this can be found in the old thread, but the main problem is that it makes low level creatures useless late game while also making it inevitable to have some classes being much stronger than other. The classic example of this is (as I wrote two years ago) the knight vs. the warlock. Knight have high growth, but weak units individually, warlock has it the other way around with low growth, but strong individual units. If we imagine knight and warlock being equally strong in the beginning of the game, then the warlock will be stronger in the late game, since the well growth gives him a higher procentrage boost of growth than the knight. Thus warlock is far stronger in late game. It wouldn't help to make the knight strong in the early game either, since he would then be much stronger and could clear neutral camps much faster than the warlock, and then gain the upper hand. The main problem with the well growth is, that it is simply not fair for all classes. It is (as said) much better and valuable for the warlock than the knight. You don't have this problem with the castle growth since it gives the same (100%) boost to all classes and the growth of units is not a problem.

About the difference in power between low and high level units I can only say that the last beta had too strong and numerous low level units. It was not always worth to build higher level unit dwellings or even recruit them. This was mainly your point of well growth two years ago, but I assure you that what you will see in the next mod version will be high level units being useful, while still having use of low level units in late game. This is achieved by a simple change of stats and while it has not been tested by other than myself I guarantee that it is much better than before.
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feanor
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PostSubject: Re: Gold economy and dwarven trasure   2016-01-25, 04:22

Quote :
we have heroes 2 creature prices, heroes 2 building prices (which are actually pretty big considering how much gold in h2 there was available per castle)
Who said?

Quote :
and heroes 3 capitol, treasury
Who said?
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Orzie
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PostSubject: Re: Gold economy and dwarven trasure   2016-01-25, 05:02

It seems that it was me who told this to Sir Albe. Still, the prices and some other stats may change in future - for now we should just have something to start with.

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YhyJasne
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PostSubject: Re: Gold economy and dwarven trasure   2016-01-25, 05:04

Okay, thanks for reply and correction. I hope the game is well balanced through early-late game as well as between classes. What about gold economy alone and castle cost/capitol rate for a single castle? is it 3000 like the old ideas suggested? Sorry, I forgot about the old topics at the forums, it was some years ago Shocked.
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Sir Albe
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PostSubject: Re: Gold economy and dwarven trasure   2016-01-25, 05:08

Orzie wrote:
It seems that it was me who told this to Sir Albe. Still, the prices and some other stats may change in future - for now we should just have something to start with.

I am not sure we discussed this. We just talked about creature stats and how it would be nice having the close to the original stats as long as it didn't ruin the balance. The other stuff about building prices, castle/well growth or capitol income was not talked about for years.
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