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 Cyborg: Graphics

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PostSubject: Re: Cyborg: Graphics   2017-11-30, 00:36

New version:
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PostSubject: Re: Cyborg: Graphics   2017-12-01, 00:26

I tried to make the graphics less flat. I'm still not sure if it's suitable for animation.



Compared to the previous one:

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PostSubject: Re: Cyborg: Graphics   2017-12-01, 01:58

Upload a picture with the other heroes, so the difference becones a lot more clear
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PostSubject: Re: Cyborg: Graphics   2017-12-01, 02:15

As you wish.



Last edited by Morglin on 2017-12-01, 02:32; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Cyborg: Graphics   2017-12-01, 02:26

Now that's looking much more neat. Too bad you didn't put a Knight there as well, because this class can be obviously compared in appearance (while it's good to have the Cyborg a little more different).

Anyways, I would suggest making the helmet a little smaller. After that, the shape of the cloak could be made somewhat sharper (see the bottomright part where it's too round).

Other than that, it's really close to what I would put in the first release. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Cyborg: Graphics   2017-12-01, 10:04

really great work! and I also agree with Orzie. Cyborgs head is BIG!
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PostSubject: Re: Cyborg: Graphics   2017-12-02, 09:06

I have no idea how to do it less LEGO-like.





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PostSubject: Re: Cyborg: Graphics   2017-12-02, 11:03

Don't mention it king




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PostSubject: Re: Cyborg: Graphics   2017-12-02, 16:28

Something like this. But he may also need the plume on the helmet different from the Knight's one, since the prototype has it.



It would be nicer to have the "hair" placed behind though. I placed it on a shoulder so that it's visible in that perspective like on the original "portrait".
But probably it isn't needed, because currently the Cyborg seems to be individual enough on the adventure map and any plume might put him at risk being similar to the Knight.

P.S. I guess no one would be against using this sprite somewhere in H3SW? Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Cyborg: Graphics   2017-12-02, 22:28

Nice! That's a skill.  Blind

If you're done, send me a .bmp file in H2 size and I'll be able to try make an animation. Or maybe you want to make an animation by yourself too? Would be nice.

Orzie wrote:
P.S. I guess no one would be against using this sprite somewhere in H3SW?

You mean the Cyborg fraction in H3:TSW? That would be amazing!
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PostSubject: Re: Cyborg: Graphics   2017-12-02, 23:56

Quote :
You mean the Cyborg fraction in H3:TSW? That would be amazing!

It was the initial idea for this faction (and would conclude the storyline of the project). Later I thought that it wouldn't fit to Heroes 2 (or it would be too hard to fit it in and convince everyone that everything is okay), but I didn't want the concept to be scrapped, so I just came to Ironfist website with some graphics.

A 10th faction for H3SW would be amazing if feanor had time/inspiration to do that, but I'm afraid that I won't be on the modding scene when the project will be finally ready to include it. We still have 3 other factions to design besides remaking the original ones.

For now, though, these Cyborg graphics could be used as references, teasers and easter eggs, and they surely will.



Quote :
If you're done, send me a .bmp file in H2 size and I'll be able to try make an animation. Or maybe you want to make an animation by yourself too? Would be nice.

Please post the static form here without a background right before you start animating. I've got some fixes to suggest.

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PostSubject: Re: Cyborg: Graphics   2017-12-04, 09:00

Ragoon, you didn't send me a .bmp file in H2 size and you even didn't use Heroes 2 palette! Unfortunately I'll have to use different colors. For the future - Heroes 2 palette:

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PostSubject: Re: Cyborg: Graphics   2017-12-04, 09:47

Sorry, I had classes for the past 28 hours, so basicly 2 full days. I'll send you a bmp, I know about the pallete, but converting it usually doesn't change much as seen in my previous works :p Aaand I haven't figured out how to import it to gimp or photoshop yet anywaaay :v

And we usually use png, while I dont know why you couldn't just use the gif file to export if from there :p
Here you go:


And btw: czemu gadamy po angielsku Very Happy
Spróbuj dodać ten pióropusz czy cokolwiek on tam ma już sam, zobaczymy jak Ci wyjdzie :p A ja się muszę skupić na poprawie zaległych portretów do SW

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PostSubject: Re: Cyborg: Graphics   2017-12-04, 10:34

Dla mnie angielski to koszmar i posługuję się nim na poziomie ułomnego pięciolatka, ale mimo to, ze względu na szacunek do faktu, że to międzynarodowe forum - staram się go, w miarę swoich małych możliwości, używać. Ale że chcę ci teraz napisać o paletach w Gimpie - chrzanić to.

Co do Gimpa, mnie udało się zaimportować paletę tak:
1. Wrzuciłem ją do Gimpa tak jak każdy obraz
2. Wszedłem w Okna > Dokowane okna dialogowe > Palety (nie pomyl z "Paleta kolorów" są dwa różne okna)
3. Znalazłem na liście paletę kolorów obrazu i kliknąłem "powiel paletę"
4. Wpisałem nazwę i odtąd mam już ją na liście


Co do pióropusza, mam nadzieję, że mi, jako tako, jak na początkującego, wyjdzie. Jednak te kolory, których w palecie nie ma, będzie trzeba pozmieniać i tak, więc jeśli na razie nie chcesz tego robić - z tym też spróbuję pobawić się sam.
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PostSubject: Re: Cyborg: Graphics   2017-12-04, 14:40

Teraz tylko potrzebuje takiego poradnika do photoshopa xd Ale poprawiłem co się dało, reszta w Twoich rękach! Trzymaj się :p





Plume makes him look worse than before imo, but it was the best way to implement it I could think of. Will get back to SW portraits now, like I promised Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Cyborg: Graphics   2017-12-05, 05:55

Now let me tell you why using Heroes 2 palette for H2 or H3SW-style graphics (adventure map, portraits, creatures, etc.) is sometimes pretty important.

In order to use a Heroes 2 palette, you should do the following.

Dropbox\The Succession Wars Mod\Graphics\Palette.act
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pt2kakhfatmr1ud/Palette.act?dl=0


Step 1. Open the Color Table (ACT) for a 8-bit indexed file. It's available only for such files, as "indexed" suggests. It means that every color has an index - a specific address from 0 to 255 which was widely used in old school video games.




Step 2. Load the custom color table (we have Heroes 2 palette in it). For some other graphical video editors it can be in another way, but generally color tables are convertible to different formats (txt, bmp, pal, or others).




Step 3. Burn my eyes!



Well, the result is not as fun as we would think. This is because the file is already converted in another 8-bit palette suitable for Heroes 3 where it features custom palette for any asset (unlike Heroes 2 where it uses the same H2 palette for all game assets). So, this asset would be not convertible and cannot be simply used, for example, in Heroes 2 and cannot be ported without the loss of quality (it's just a model situation).

This is due to the fact that the file was not saved in H2 palette and all indexes are arranged wrong. If you put this asset to Heroes 2 without any additional treatment, you would see something like this.

Thankfully, for H3SW such situations are not critical and it's only dangerous for the style where people might think that bright pink doesn't suit the style of the game because they don't remember it there. I only enforce strict H2 palette for the assets which are treated by the code (for example, those which have special shadows, cycling colors or multi-colored flags).

For Heroes 2, however, the asset simply shows a lot of graphical flaws if the palette is broken, and must be fixed manually.



P.S. However, in many cases there is still a workaround. To do this, you should simply convert the sprite back to RGB, and then convert it to Indexed with a pre-set custom palette (you will be shown the same menu where you can choose the desired color table):



Voila, it works and the colors are not broken. This is because the initial sprite was made by Uhm in the correct palette, and Photoshop found the right colors and adapted the image without any noticeable loss of quality.

However, in some cases you may not be so lucky and, for example, some orange or light blue or purple colors will disappear or change, and you will have to find solutions so that the image still looks the way you intended it to.

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Last edited by Orzie on 2017-12-05, 06:10; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Cyborg: Graphics   2017-12-05, 06:08

Ragoon wrote:
Teraz tylko potrzebuje takiego poradnika do photoshopa xd Ale poprawiłem co się dało, reszta w Twoich rękach! Trzymaj się :p





Plume makes him look worse than before imo, but it was the best way to implement it I could think of. Will get back to SW portraits now, like I promised Smile

Sure, the plume should be removed because now he looks like another version of Knight, which I always tried to avoid. Good job anyways!
I suppose the sprite is ready now.

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PostSubject: Re: Cyborg: Graphics   2017-12-05, 09:56

Orzie wrote:
I suppose the sprite is ready now.
Still not. These colors (I'm not sure about all) are used for animation and shouldn't be on the cloak and on the horse's head.



That's how it looks in game:

https://i.imgur.com/4CxuusY.mp4


Also the flagpole color should be same as others.
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PostSubject: Re: Cyborg: Graphics   2017-12-05, 17:04

Then you should ged rid of them. 4 red and 4 yellow colors are cycling; the next green colors are static and available for free use, then comes the water (some of them are static, some are not) and bright teleport aura. The final 10 colors are not cycling, but shouldn't be used ever, if I recall correctly. They might be used for technical reasons.

Just take a screenshot in the moment where the colors are on their wrong position, and use this caption as a reference so that you know which pixels you will need to fix. Keeping the palette near also helps as well so you can just copy the required color.

Ragoon
just didn't know about this feature because in Heroes 3 there is an individual palette for each asset, so the colors won't cycle if you don't make them to.

--

P.S. there are also some programs which allow a more direct control of the image palette, like MtPaint (free software). There you can, for example, know how many pixels of the chosen index are present on the image, and locate them with a simple color swap on the required index.




P.P.S.

During the development of H3SW main menu, I also had to fix some broken pixels left by Ragoon. They outstood in the game and were not transparent like the rest of the image background. This is a normal situation and an artist must be ready for such kinds of troubles when working with someone else in collaboration.


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PostSubject: Re: Cyborg: Graphics   2017-12-07, 03:41

I'm not sure if the blue lights on the hero's arm and on the horse's legs should be animated like in the battlefield version. I also think that the plume should stay.





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PostSubject: Re: Cyborg: Graphics   2017-12-07, 07:17

I agree with the first statement about the animated color, but I am in deep doubt about keeping the plume. On the battlefield it's easier to differentiate a Cyborg from a Knight because the "hair" lies on the shoulder just like I showed above. On the Adventure map, though, it's easy to mix one with the other for an inexperienced player, which in fact shows a poor design solution. Heroes 2 classes are generally unique in exterior, and it's nicer to have them that way.

P.S. I really like the result of your and Ragoon's work. Although once I wanted this class to be my solo project, I am realistic now and realize that it's better to have it this way because the chances to get this thing playable are much higher. Thank you for coming here and showing the thread some attention. Positive moral

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PostSubject: Re: Cyborg: Graphics   2017-12-07, 07:49

When it comes to knowledge about Heroes 2, I trust you more than yourself, so the plume will be removed. But what do you think about these blue animated elements? It would be the first hero on the map who has animation when he stands and I don't know if it's good to break this rule.

I'm also glad that the hero is finally suitable for animation.
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PostSubject: Re: Cyborg: Graphics   2017-12-07, 07:55

Like I said, I agree that the adventure map animation looks strange. So, feel free to use the blue and red colors which are close to the "reference", but are not animated. It's always bad to have a rampage of shimmering colors everywhere, so in Heroes 2 all such colors are used wisely (only the Phoenix is a creature which uses them extensively).

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PostSubject: Re: Cyborg: Graphics   2017-12-07, 08:00

Even eyes should be static?
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PostSubject: Re: Cyborg: Graphics   2017-12-07, 08:01

Let's leave the character's eyes animated and see what happens Smile

In Heroes 2, Necromancer's horse has animated eyes, but on the map they are not. So we have a precedent in this case anyway, it's up to you to decide. It would be always easy to fix it if it will be too annoying in the game.

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