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 Pixel Painting: Kantez

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Kantez
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PostSubject: Re: Kantez images.    2017-02-25, 00:24

Some cliffs i made, unfinished.



I think that could be used for some custom maps. Elevation of terrain allways bring some new options.
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PostSubject: Re: Pixel Painting: Kantez   2017-02-25, 00:44

Bigger version:

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PostSubject: Re: Pixel Painting: Kantez   2017-02-25, 00:55

Nice idea! You can model on a battlefield obstacles, there were also cliffs, but bigger Razz

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PostSubject: Pixel Painting: Kantez   2017-02-25, 20:31

Well... I coul'd if only i'd had one of them.
I have no acces to battlefield graphics
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PostSubject: Pixel Painting: Kantez   2017-02-25, 21:15

Wasteland cliff


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PostSubject: Re: Pixel Painting: Kantez   2017-02-27, 11:41

Try such adjustment (not perfect ends, but overally something like this):




Edit: Obstacles from a battlefield, check if you can use it Wink

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1an973nqj4s8la9/Nowy%20folder.7z?dl=0

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PostSubject: Re: Pixel Painting: Kantez   2017-02-27, 16:50

Nice progress with the Wasteland cliffs! I advise to pay attention to the shadowed areas - without them the cliffs don't look deep enough. You can also put it near an already existing wide cliff from Heroes 2 as a reference for making proper shadow tones.



If you want to make it less looking as a breakage and more like an uphill cliff (they could be a nice addition not only to Heroes 2, but also to H3SW, by the way), there could be another strategy: darkening the shadow area using for example Photoshop's HSBC (Hue-Saturation-Brightness-Contrast, Hue is not required in this case, Saturation should be a little increased for shadows (about +5 if ever desired), Contrast could also be increased a little if desired, Brightness go about -40 and Lightness could also be about -15 or so, it really depends). Just a quick example (would still require fixes):



Shadow tones and shadows are responsible for volume and proper perception of the asset geometry in 99% of cases.
There are also little details about lightening/saturating the cliff body, but I can write about them later if necessary. Generally you should look by your own eyes and keep in mind that major numbers (over 20) are sometimes dangerous for an asset, usually you have to check how "-7" or "-10" looks first instead of "-60" all the way. We had a lot of such graphics in Mister Kalu's version, he seemed to love acid tones for upgrades with Hue parameters shifted for astronomic numbers without enough saturation/contrast/palette control.

In the shown above examples I didn't draw a single pixel, although sometimes manual insertion is necessary if the texture is broken. On townscreens it's even obligatory.


Kantez wrote:
Well... I coul'd if only i'd had one of them.
I have no acces to battlefield graphics

You could just ask us for Heroes 2 resources. Smile
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oyexq0i9iel97bn/HMM2.zip?dl=0

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Kantez
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PostSubject: Re: Pixel Painting: Kantez   2017-02-28, 03:50

Thanks those files are for me Very Happy
One question: files should be in .bmp or .png format?
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PostSubject: Re: Pixel Painting: Kantez   2017-02-28, 04:34

.PNG
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PostSubject: Re: Pixel Painting: Kantez   2017-02-28, 05:02

Agrees with Orzie regarding the shadows of the cliff. Otherwise good work - keep it up Smile
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PostSubject: Pixel Painting: Kantez   2017-02-28, 05:35












I will create more variations if needed (i think about cave and water spring in cliff).
About shadows of those cliffs - i think that you are using better, more advanced painting tools.
Your experience in this shadow business may be helpful there( i mean using HSBC).
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PostSubject: Re: Pixel Painting: Kantez   2017-02-28, 17:08

You can also notice that I removed the nearby ground in the base on a cliff. It was looking too bright, while for the cliff we need a reverse situation: we require that the cliff body is generally brighter than the terrain it covers. This way you will achieve a more proper geometry impression of an object. The quick example I threw yesterday requires even more brightening of the cliff body (not presented on this piece, this image is old).



So, a more proper shape for such a sprite would be (without brightened body currently):


But of course it should be put on a terrain in the process of making so you will know if the cliff body is really brighter that the terrain or it requires additional treatment.

The shadows issue here is a little complex. I like some of the cliffs presented and I am a fan of Starcraft where were some multi-leveled areas (and the cliffs are in fact a try to imitate the same), but for example feanor doesn't approve the idea completely and I will have either to persuade him or give up. I hope that I will be successful though, there is a nice potential in adding such objects and enough clarity about the operations required to fix these cliffs.

I could do this all by myself, but I'm at work currently and I'm interested to give you tips so you will be more productive on your own which can be more valuable for any fan projects out there. If we are to speak about Heroes 2, there are 4 shadow tones, and thus we have a certain rule about how the shadow will cover the upper part of the cliff. The discussed cliff is an object which has part of the shadow incrusted in its body, while the other part is drawn by maintenance colors. The trouble is to make the "incrusted shadow" looking similar to the one which will lay on the terrain.

(We can see that the white area is in fact brighter than the cliff but the cliff looks properly. In this case what makes the proper impression is the overall contrast, while for the Wasteland terrain, which is not as bright itself, the cliff will have to be brighter to fit anyway and to provide the said contrast).



Don't be afraid to experiment with HSBC, and don't be afraid to use the Lasso tool. Once you're familiar with it, it will be much easier to control the image and the influence of HSBC on certain parts of it. Usually HSBC requires partial selection, applying it on an image as a whole often doesn't provide the better impression.

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PostSubject: Re: Pixel Painting: Kantez   2017-02-28, 19:20

Orzie wrote:
for example feanor doesn't approve the idea completely and I will have either to persuade him or give up.
I think that I dont understand how feanor has to do with adventure map objects (which dont need programming, right?)


I have to admit, on the latest screenshots, your cliffs look a lot better and I actually like it Smile
Now try to make grass one that looks good with these new tips : D
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PostSubject: Re: Pixel Painting: Kantez   2017-02-28, 19:39

Quote :
I think that I dont understand how feanor has to do with adventure map objects (which dont need programming, right?)

He's still a very important member of the team, and if someone is against adding something, it's a different case when someone in fact suggests adding something. I'd like to keep things more or less smooth, although it's very hard sometimes.

Quote :
Now try to make grass one that looks good with these new tips : D

I suppose that the possible grass cliffs (if any could be created, although it might be cool to have these cliffs characteristic only to some, not all terrains) should also be designed over the battlefield forms where the brown dirt fills the cliff body.

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PostSubject: Re: Pixel Painting: Kantez   2017-02-28, 19:45

Oh, I see. Thanks for your reply Orzie Smile


I tried to fit the colors better (and make it lighter + softer)



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PostSubject: Re: Pixel Painting: Kantez   2017-02-28, 19:57

Will need to check how it looks in the game. Without the shadows it seems that it's really too bright, but it may be an illusion.
The shadows should be drawn manually as shown on my example, using #ff00ff as the Deep Shadow tone and #ff96ff as the Faint Shadow, and the image must be saved in H2 Palette.

It's still unclear if we get perfectly working 4 tones for H3SW v0.8, so let's orient on 2 tones for the release.

Right now I see that of course there are a lot of impurities, but I'll be able to participate only in the evening.

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PostSubject: Pixel Painting: Kantez   2017-03-01, 04:29

I just drawed this rocky grass cliff, it propably need some fixing.

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PostSubject: Pixel Painting: Kantez   2017-03-01, 07:16


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PostSubject: Re: Pixel Painting: Kantez   2017-03-01, 07:21

Try to make one with dirt only (like in battle) like Orzie said before.

Also try to fit it exacly into squares, the less free space is inside each occupied square the better.
You can place it next to other h2 objects (like trees, rocks, mountains) for comparison too Smile On top of terrain ofc
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Kantez
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PostSubject: Pixel Painting: Kantez   2017-03-01, 09:15

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PostSubject: Re: Pixel Painting: Kantez   2017-03-01, 09:33

Rocky grass cliff looks great, I would keep this version. Just take a look (a bit increased contrast):



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PostSubject: Re: Pixel Painting: Kantez   2017-03-01, 17:22

I suggest a considerably overhauled version. Still requires manual input, though - it looks more like raw H1 rock currently with the brighter tones standing out (need to draw subtones manually to make the image smoother). Unfortunately I can't precisely describe what I did here because of constant struggling with brightness/contrast here and there. The source image required some pixel treatment in fact.



Currently I am not that enthusiastic about adding this piece to the mod though.

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PostSubject: Pixel Painting: Kantez   2017-03-02, 04:28

If we speak about cliffs, water cliffs would be usefull?




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PostSubject: Re: Pixel Painting: Kantez   2017-03-02, 05:51

I like that idea, but they would need to be stackable next to each other without looking weird (or you can make 2-3 versions which will solve the problem anyway). Also diagonal and vertical versions could be useful in that case.
It will also have to be animated probably (cause water is)
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Kantez
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PostSubject: Pixel Painting: Kantez   2017-03-02, 07:06









Imagine the possibilities! Smile
I will need some time to draw \ and / versions. You know, sh - shadow...
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