~ Forums of Enroth ~

An Enroth diehard fan community
 
HomeHome  ChatChat  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» [EN, RU][Offline] HoMM2 Tournament of the Landless 2017-2 (Турнир Безземельных)
by Orzie 2017-09-21, 03:42

» [EN, RU][Offline] HoMM2 Treasure Hunt Tourney 2017 (Турнир Кладоискателей)
by Orzie 2017-09-20, 16:55

» [EN, RU][Offline] HoMM2 Main Tourney 2017 (Общий Турнир)
by Orzie 2017-09-20, 16:50

» What are you listening to?
by Daleron 2017-09-18, 03:07

» Enrothian Fan Art
by Orzie 2017-09-16, 02:44

» Currently open HoMM1/HoMM2 Tournaments!
by Orzie 2017-09-16, 02:33

» [EN, RU][Offline] HoMM2 Trade Guild Tourney 2017-2 (Турнир Торговой Гильдии)
by Orzie 2017-09-16, 02:05

Poll
"Wait" in HoMM2?
Yes
80%
 80% [ 44 ]
No
20%
 20% [ 11 ]
Total Votes : 55
Most Viewed Topics
H3SW: General Graphics discussion
Ragoon's Graphics For HoMM3SW
H3SW General Discussion
H3SW: Dwelling Development
H3SW Map List: Work in progress
Dervish Faction General Concept
Enrothian Fan Art
H3SW Recruitment Point - Enroth Needs You!
Серия книг "Земли Меча и Магии"
Heroes of Might and Magic 3: The Succession Wars - General info

Share | 
 

 H3SW: Canonical Faction Lineups

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Sir Albe
Vampire
Vampire
avatar

Messages : 513
Quality Points : 314
Registration Date : 2015-07-16
Age : 22
Location : Aalborg, Denmark

PostSubject: H3SW: Canonical Faction Lineups   2016-12-15, 09:10

This thread shows the creature lineups for the six classic HoMM II factions with the new creatures added in Heroes of Might and Magic III: The Succession Wars as well as the neutral creatures. You can see the stats for each creature, their abilities and their price. The thread will be updated with new sprites, stats ect. when changes are made. Feel free to write comments about the lineups below Smile

Knight lineup:
 
Sorceress lineup:
 
Wizard lineup:
 
Necromancer lineup:
 
Warlock lineup:
 
Barbarian lineup:
 
Neutral creatures:
 


Last edited by Sir Albe on 2017-06-03, 22:59; edited 53 times in total
Back to top Go down
Orzie
Master Modder
Master Modder
avatar

Messages : 1521
Quality Points : 641
Registration Date : 2014-12-12
Age : 25
Location : Tomsk, Russia

PostSubject: DESIGNER'S NOTE   2016-12-15, 18:11

DESIGNER'S NOTE

1. Heroes 2 Creature Basis

If we are to speak about design, Heroes 2 creature concepts demonstrate some peculiar properties. First and foremost, they all are simple. I would even say that Heroes 1-2 is a somewhat childish game.
This is expressed by the fact that most of these concepts belong to the most simplified and worldwide popular visual images: Greek mythology, Anglo-Saxon knightage and European fairy tales. Unlike Heroes 3, which is heavily based on modern fantasy like Dungeons & Dragons and feature rather rare mythology concepts (Nagas coming from Induism as an example), Heroes 2 possesses only the most well-known names, especially the first 4 factions - the Knight, the Barbarian, the Sorceress, and the Warlock - inherited from Heroes 1. The Wizard and the Necromancer factions first introduced in Heroes 2 avoid the rules a little, introducing J.R.R. Tolkien style creatures (Halfling, Roc, Mage) and a little flavor of Jewish mythology (Halfling, Golem, Giant). Yet, the Giant/Titan is again stylized under the Greek warrior concept. The Necromancer faction is in fact a hodgepodge featuring Monster Squad type of lineup, looking like a Halloween party.

In this situation, if one would be to add new factions or new creatures, serious problems could be met even at the stage of concept development. The "allowed" concepts which are still well known and look more or less fitting to the fairy tale atmosphere of Heroes 2 are:

Gems  Basilisk and Cockatrice (Greek Mythology)
Gems  Satyr (Greek Mythology)
Gems  Leprechaun (Anglo-Saxon fairy tales)
Gems  Harpy (Greek Mythology)
Gems  Wyvern (Anglo-Saxon mythology/fairy tales)
Gems  Black Knight (Anglo-Saxon fairy tales)
Gems  Werewolf (European fairy tales)

The Leprechaun already exists in the game in the shape of an adventure game object, so introducing it to the game is less likely.


Questionable options also exist:

Wood  Any kind of giant mammal, reptile or insect (see Boar, Wolf, and Toad - the latter for Heroes 2 beta)
Wood  Manticore (Arabic mythology)
Wood  Any kind of Egyptian god impersonation (see Mummy)
Wood  Gnome (European fairy tales)
Wood  Any other kind of European dragons not presented in Heroes 2 (see MMVI Wyrm, ditto Heroes 4 King of Dragons)

Finally, there are concepts which became widely known up to 2016. This is D&D and other modern fantasy concepts, including those used in Heroes 3. They are much more famous than in 1996 now, and the impression of them in the games of 2016 differs from what was in 1996. There are mature people who treat Beholders and Lizardmen as natural, because they existed all their life.


2. Why Might & Magic VI?

Might and Magic VI: The Mandate of Heaven is a CRPG created by New World Computing (the creators of HoMM series if someone doesn't know that in 2016) set in the same universe as Heroes 1-2: Enroth. It is even set on the same continent and continues the story of Enroth 10 years later the War of the Enrothian Succession featured in Heroes 2.

MMVI features a drastically different graphic style, but continues the same story from another point of view - the eyes of 4 adventurers called the Heroes of Enroth. Before (and during) the events of Might and Magic VI, Roland is captured by Kreegans, Archibald is freed from stone, the Kreegan Hive on the Enroth continent is destroyed along with the Kreegan Queen, and Catherine leaves Enroth for Antagarich where Nighonians allied with Kreegans started a full-scale war against Erathia.

Choosing Might and Magic VI as one of the major anchors for continuation of the Enrothian storyline, I decided that some of MMVI concepts are also able to fill the manifold niches left in the Heroes 2 faction lineups. Yes, some of them don't completely fit to the Heroes 2 basis mentioned above. However, the number of vacancies and the required gameplay niches for the faction lineups force us to enter a full scale principle of a lesser evil.

This is why some of the concepts introduced in the game for v0.8 beta may seem inappropriate for some users. However, they are also created with the as maximum simplicity of form as possible. Heroes 3 beholders (adjusted by Ajit, Agar's follower) feature long tentacles which became familiar to every Heroes player. However, Heroes 2 pixel style doesn't allow such complexity of form. This is why MMVI beholder (created by Agar himself according to the lore) was chosen by me as a new Warlock creature for v0.8 beta.

MMVI creatures:
 


3. Conclusion

Some of the new creatures for the faction lineups may seem questionable for people who never played MMVI or MM games in general. That is, however, a likely feature of the project which unites "both universes" (since many players don't even know about the true story of HoMM universe and the true origin of Kreegans). Depending on how it will look in game, some of the creature concepts may change in future updates, but right now I would like to leave things as they are.

________________________
In case someone cares for my music:
Mylinks_profile_page


Last edited by Orzie on 2017-02-23, 02:31; edited 3 times in total
Back to top Go down
Abekat
Gargoyle
Gargoyle
avatar

Messages : 10
Quality Points : 1
Registration Date : 2016-11-07

PostSubject: Re: H3SW: Canonical Faction Lineups   2016-12-16, 00:38

I get your point with the beholder, at first i just thought it was a little out of place. but yea, i did only play the heroes games Embarassed

just some questions:

- will the harpy get an upgrade (so it will gain the no retaliation ability)?

- and what about the fortress and 'dessert' castle, are they still too early in progress to be a part of 0.8? it just seemed in some of the threads, that (at least) the creatures were nearly done Happy

- and lastly, didn't you used to have a upgraded skeleton, or a new model, with the red feather on? it was pretty sweet. I hope you don't scrap your work, and put cancelled units out as neutrals Smile

but holy s*** your work is awesome, cant wait till it comes out!
Back to top Go down
Orzie
Master Modder
Master Modder
avatar

Messages : 1521
Quality Points : 641
Registration Date : 2014-12-12
Age : 25
Location : Tomsk, Russia

PostSubject: Re: H3SW: Canonical Faction Lineups   2016-12-16, 03:17

Quote :
- will the harpy get an upgrade (so it will gain the no retaliation ability)?
Currently I think that this is too much for the Barbarian who has Attack skill as a primary focus. Having a Harpy which receives a full retaliation is more atmospheric and more in the spirit of H2 Barbarian gameplay, as I think.
Also, there may not be an upgrade for the Harpy ever. Personally, I see Harpies as low-conscience creatures (because they dwell in water nests and not in pyramids or skyscrapers) collecting various trinkets in their lairs and hunting on their prey like some birds do. For such type of creatures Heroes 2 doesn't intend upgrades. They are simply not "civilized" enough. The only exception from this rule is Dragons, but from another point of view they may have a developed consciousness (in some universes Dragons are way smarter than humans).

Quote :
- and what about the fortress and 'dessert' castle, are they still too early in progress to be a part of 0.8?
The respective threads will appear a little later. You can see that these factions have specific sections here in the Development Board. Smile

Quote :
- and lastly, didn't you used to have a upgraded skeleton, or a new model, with the red feather on? it was pretty sweet. I hope you don't scrap your work, and put cancelled units out as neutrals Smile
v0.8 should have only H2 upgrades except the case of the Rogue who now belongs to a faction. If there would be an upgrade to Skeleton (which is unlikely, Peasant has more chances to receive an upgrade and we already have a draft for it), it would be something more than a Skeleton with a little accessory worn. It would be more like a Skeleton wearing some kind of armor like it's implemented in Heroes 3.
So no, that graphics may be considered scrapped. If someone wants to use it, why not. I hope Kivo would be not against that since it's generally a frankensteined creature.

________________________
In case someone cares for my music:
Mylinks_profile_page
Back to top Go down
Abekat
Gargoyle
Gargoyle
avatar

Messages : 10
Quality Points : 1
Registration Date : 2016-11-07

PostSubject: Re: H3SW: Canonical Faction Lineups   2016-12-16, 03:59

alright, thanks for the anwsers! and yea i saw the seperate threads for the factions - i just hope they will make it to the 0.8 release. I can imagine how hard it is to make the townscreens to fit the original style Shocked
Back to top Go down
Orzie
Master Modder
Master Modder
avatar

Messages : 1521
Quality Points : 641
Registration Date : 2014-12-12
Age : 25
Location : Tomsk, Russia

PostSubject: Re: H3SW: Canonical Faction Lineups   2016-12-16, 04:22

It is hell of a work, yes. The Witch won't have an updated townscreen as well as the majority of other factions. For now only the Knight and Dervish are in the works, and probably, a somewhat reworked versions of the Barbarian (worked out by Uhm) and Sorceress (somehow touched by Agar) may also be seen in v0.8 beta.

The specified townscreen threads will be also created in respective subforums. I see it in the shape of threads with full townscreens and detailed info on each building (icon, cost, requirements). Yet, we didn't change the requirements yet.

________________________
In case someone cares for my music:
Mylinks_profile_page
Back to top Go down
 
H3SW: Canonical Faction Lineups
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» H3SW: Witch Faction Lineup
» H3SW General Discussion
» Red Army Faction (RAF): A History
» Cyborg: Faction Lineup
» H3SW Recruitment Point - Enroth Needs You!

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
~ Forums of Enroth ~ :: Modding Guild :: Heroes of Might and Magic III: The Succession Wars :: Development Board :: Classic Factions-
Jump to: