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 [Heroes 2 Bugs] Griffins retaliate despite the Paralyze spell being active

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Unknown_Hero
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PostSubject: [Heroes 2 Bugs] Griffins retaliate despite the Paralyze spell being active   2016-03-30, 06:15

Bug: Griffins retaliate despite the Paralyze spell being active

http://speedy.sh/8SY8s/a0777-griffin-retaliate-despite-paralize-spell-01.GM1

Launch HEROES2W.EXE or ironfist.exe ver 0.8.4
Load "a0777-griffin-retaliate-despite-paralize-spell-01.GM1"

Rebecca attacks Ector.

Titans shoot Centaurs.
Rebecca casts Paralyze on Griffins.
Genie attacks Griffins H10.

Then bug.

The Griffins retaliate despite the Paralyze spell.
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BoseDrache
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PostSubject: Re: [Heroes 2 Bugs] Griffins retaliate despite the Paralyze spell being active   2016-03-30, 16:43

Where's the bug when they always retaliate even being under Paralyze, Blind or Petrify?
It could be a bug if they sometimes do and sometimes - not.
It could be a bug too if that action leads to game crash.

But now it's not a bug.
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Unknown_Hero
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PostSubject: Re: [Heroes 2 Bugs] Griffins retaliate despite the Paralyze spell being active   2016-03-31, 08:14

Paralyze spell effects: paralyzed creatures cannot take action until attacked, and cannot retaliate (cannot retaliate to all attacks for the duration of the turn where the first attack is done; and it doesn't matter if the creature retaliates once or several times).

Griffin: may retaliate against any number of attackers.

The Griffins have unlimited retaliations, Paralyzed creatures cannot retaliate, so the Griffins cannot retaliate when affected by the Paralyze spell.

This is a bug, and there is also a bug with the Medusas petrification, certainly related.

Blind spell effects: blind creatures cannot take action until attacked and retaliate with half strength.
With the Blind spell, the Griffins have unlimited retaliations, but they do only half damage for the duration of the turn where the first attack is done.
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BoseDrache
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PostSubject: Re: [Heroes 2 Bugs] Griffins retaliate despite the Paralyze spell being active   2016-03-31, 16:48

Play game instead of reading manuals.
For me your manual quotes mean nothing, and I strongly hope that I'm not alone in this point of view.


Upd. "The targeted creatures are paralyzed, unable to move or retaliate." - from in-game info.
And if it's really necessary, better to add info about griffins here. I think it's not. Because otherwise here should be added also info about Giants/Titans, Undead, Elementals, Dragons, and about "what happens with Wolves or Paladins/Crusaders if they are paralyzed by Cyclops' retaliation on their first strike".

Or just take everything of it for granted, including Griffins too.
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Orzie
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PostSubject: Re: [Heroes 2 Bugs] Griffins retaliate despite the Paralyze spell being active   2016-03-31, 17:27

I think there must be a clear explanation which ability is prioritized over other, that's all. Ability listing for creatures in Ironfist will also come in handy.

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Unknown_Hero
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PostSubject: Re: [Heroes 2 Bugs] Griffins retaliate despite the Paralyze spell being active   2016-04-01, 06:05

BoseDrache wrote:
Play game instead of reading manuals.



BoseDrache wrote:
For me your manual quotes mean nothing, and I strongly hope that I'm not alone in this point of view.


Upd. "The targeted creatures are paralyzed, unable to move or retaliate." - from in-game info.

It doesn't matter, in the manual or in game, the result is the same, and it's better explained in the manual: "cannot take action until attacked" vs "unable to move", and it's also easier to copy and paste from the manual than during game play, for sure.

BoseDrache wrote:
And if it's really necessary, better to add info about griffins here. I think it's not. Because otherwise here should be added also info about Giants/Titans, Undead, Elementals, Dragons, and about "what happens with Wolves or Paladins/Crusaders if they are paralyzed by Cyclops' retaliation on their first strike".

The Paladins/Crusaders and Wolves special attack is considered by the game as one attack with two strikes, per example, the Griffins replicate to the first strike and not to the second strike, even if they should also replicate to the second strike as they have unlimited retaliations from a "perfectionist point of view", and I would do it this way.

Should be easy for the player/modder to adjust the texts with all details to his wishes when the game texts will be externalized.

If Paladins/Crusaders or Wolves are paralyzed by Cyclops retaliation after their first strike, they don't perform their second strike.
If Paladins/Crusaders or Wolves are petrified by Medusas retaliation after their first strike, they don't perform their second strike.
It all works correctly, and it's easy to understand.

Orzie wrote:
I think there must be a clear explanation which ability is prioritized over other, that's all.

Clearly the Paralyze spell has priority as it acts before the retaliation and is intended to block it.

Orzie wrote:
Ability listing for creatures in Ironfist will also come in handy.

Yes.
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BoseDrache
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PostSubject: Re: [Heroes 2 Bugs] Griffins retaliate despite the Paralyze spell being active   2016-04-01, 09:42

Unknown_Hero wrote:
"perfectionist point of view"
Actually it's an old point of view of Handbook:
"NWC mechanics [always] > NWC texts unless it goes really buggy (crashes, sudden random losses/gains etc)"
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