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 Witch Faction Discussion

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Uhm
Vampire
Vampire
Uhm

Messages : 408
Quality Points : 447
Registration Date : 2015-07-17
Age : 24
Location : Poland

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PostSubject: Witch Faction Discussion   Witch Faction Discussion Icon_minitime2015-11-02, 23:18

Here are a short reflections on Witch's lineup and overall climate after a little talk with a reporter from Polish Press Agency.

Current style of a townscreen completely doesn't fit in the rest of the towns. It's heavy, gloomy, muddy and dirty. Also it's H3 origin is visible with the naked eye. We need something with more fabulous climate, new vision and new inspirations. There're three cultures, that we think we can draw on: Voodoo, Pre-Columbian civilizations and Polynesian islanders.

1.Voodoo - It's the darker side of our concept. Scary masks, dark beliefs, darker rituals - that's the rim of the cult. Voodoo is being practised by primitive African tribes and by communities of black people in post-colonial countries, especially in poor regions, laying far from civilization - think about deep, dark jungles Wink. Ideal place for canibals, witch-doctors, terrible creatures (Wivern, carnivorous plant, Catoblepas, giant snakes, monstrosous frogs, almost everything that came to our minds Smile) devouring reckless adventurers. We could see it around Bootleg Bay and in the Temple of Tsantsa.
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2.Pre-colombian civilizations -  Here we've got dozens of cultures that we can base on. Probably the most notable are Inca and Aztec - we all remember their cities made of enormous dressed stones and pyramid-like temples filled with gold and silver (the Fortress castle looks similarly to them). Now their glow lapsed, but some films (especially from Disney Razz) show them kept in gold, silver and red colour scheme. We should also remember about different enviroments, where we can find an ancient cities. We've got jungle again but also great mountains and Teotihuacan was placed on a lake. Creatures are winged snakes and lizardmans stylised on Indian American warriors. Don't forget about Olmec's stone heads, they will be important in further part of the post!
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3. Polynesia - Calm, beautiful coasts and islands, blue sky and water, white sand, bright green vegetation with volcanoes on the background.
Witch Faction Discussion Jungle
Stick huts on a water and seaside.

These are thing that could definitely break a monotony of jungle and swamps. We've got many similar tribes here, so I will just concentrate on Maori. Maori people have very rich "art of war" history. Their dances, element of pre-battle preparation demonstrated to scare enemies are known all around the world. Maori are often tatooing whole their faces and showing their tongue to empower the effect. Once again, they can be an inspiration for Tribals, Lizardmans and Shamans. Polynesians were even building stone fortresses like Morongo Uta or Marae Mahaiatea. Another things, that are  interesting us a lot are masks and stone statues - Tiki and Moai from Eastern Island. They had clued us in on a Stone Giants from Pathfinder (Dungeons & Dragons opposition). Still, they look really powerfull! It is a must!
Witch Faction Discussion Jorgenfistgiants
That' why I was pointing masks and statues all the time... Also the person of the Fire Lord could be somehow interrelated with them.
Spoiler:
 

I hope I will find time to draw a realy ugly Witch hero in a new style Smile


Last edited by Uhm on 2015-11-03, 00:16; edited 2 times in total
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Orzie
Master Modder
Master Modder
Orzie

Messages : 1940
Quality Points : 780
Registration Date : 2014-12-12
Age : 27
Location : Tomsk, Russia

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PostSubject: Re: Witch Faction Discussion   Witch Faction Discussion Icon_minitime2015-11-02, 23:40

Very nice insights. First of all, yes, you have guessed right - we will need to remodel the Witch townscreen from scratch just like we currently do with the Dervish screen. Agar seems to be optimistic about this development, so that we at least have some guarantees.

I actually totally forgot about the Fire Lord, while it also can be a good feature because of the shaman mask concept it utilizes. Very cool.

As for the Aztec and Inca civilizations, we already have them for the Barbarian.

Witch Faction Discussion PdLB57G

What I like the most is Polynesian concepts. Yet, some voodoo flavour can and must be utilized too; for you are right, the Witch concept should be strongly based over the cult of Tsantsa and creatures we meet in the Bootleg Bay. It is even going to be featured in the Witch campaign in v2.0.
Witch Faction Discussion Mururoa-Mahaiatea-Pyramide
Witch Faction Discussion Jungle_village_by_elhour

Here are the approximate dwelling name suggestions for the lineup creatures:
1 - Tribal - Stilthouse (a wooden house just like shown on the picture above)
2 - Wasp - Hive (simply a giant hive hanging from the tree)
3 - Lizardman - Lizard Lodge (some kind of "high quality" stilt houses probably with a tighter connection to water, maybe something similar to a giant beaver's hut)
4 - Toad - Water Lily (a giant water lily which must be placed in the middle of the lake, upgrade brings a beautiful white flower)
5 - Gorgon - Preserve (a some kind of mystic part of the forest, yet not scary but rather magical - a somewhat analog of Unicorn's Fenced Meadow)
6 - Treant - Bog (very tight, dark and scary part of the forest)
7 - Wyvern - Lair (a stone cavern in the middle of the forest)

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buffkaz
Nomad
Nomad
buffkaz

Messages : 74
Quality Points : 40
Registration Date : 2015-10-25
Location : Netherlands

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PostSubject: Re: Witch Faction Discussion   Witch Faction Discussion Icon_minitime2015-11-03, 03:03

I don't see how the Barbarian faction represents Inca or Aztec culture, but that's not really the point.

In my opinion there are some complications.

First of all Tsantsa and Voodoo are a South/Central-American concepts, so Polynesia seems out of place.

Second of all, although swamps are present in Polynesia, I also see, like Uhm noted, white sandy beaches, coconut trees and volcanoes.
Since the Tribals live in a Stilthouse (located in a swamp) and line-up exists of Lizardmen, toads, wasps and Treants, the emphasis of the faction will be a swampy-jungle theme.

On the other hand, I do recognize the fact that the tribal warrior is a polynesian concept (upgrade could have tribal tattoos to make this more clear).

And personally I think if you're going for the Inca/Aztec/Mayan theme, you should add some bird to the faction line-up, because these temples were mostly on very high places, where giant birds (like the Andes Condor) reign supreme. This is reflected in the fact that warriors of these tribes used feathers in their outfits.  

So, I think if you're going to go for a very strictly interpretation of the cultures, I think you're going to have a difficult task in finding the right one.

This means, I think, you shouldn't make things too complicated and grab the best parts from each culture and use those.
(The Dervish faction does the same. It combines Arabian influences like acolytes and genies with ancient-Egyptian influences (Anubite). The binding factor in this case is also the environment: the desert.)

Anyway, if you're going for a sampy-jungle theme I think it's awesome if you go for a dark, dense swampy part in one corner, but on the other side a corner with a beautiful colourful jungle. Volcano in the background? Sure, why not. This is fantasy guys.

These are (very) surrealistic and even psychedelic examples of what I have in mind, but it captures the atmosphere (beauty and death) I think.
Witch Faction Discussion Tumblr_lsk0o3nLPD1r06cf7o1_500
Witch Faction Discussion 10a46d0425110429576e6bd5d067532a

What I really like about this theme is that the (tier 7) praying mantis really fits.
On the one hand it's a machine made for killing (the dark, scary swamp), but on the other hand some types have got the beauty of a bird of paradise (the colourful jungle).

Witch Faction Discussion 8ece2fb02a1410d9728e661084b63415
(this is a jeweled flower mantis and it really exists!)  

Witch Faction Discussion Orchid-mantis1
And this is the beautiful Orchid mantis. It looks like it comes straight out of a fairy-tale. But looks can deceive, this is a ferocious killing machine.

The witch also fits. In fairytales witches often show up in the appearance of beautiful young ladies (like the beautiful jungle), but once their magic runs out, they return to be old, ugly hags (like the swamp).
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Orzie
Master Modder
Master Modder
Orzie

Messages : 1940
Quality Points : 780
Registration Date : 2014-12-12
Age : 27
Location : Tomsk, Russia

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PostSubject: Re: Witch Faction Discussion   Witch Faction Discussion Icon_minitime2015-11-03, 03:43

Quote :
First of all Tsantsa and Voodoo are a South/Central-American concepts, so Polynesia seems out of place.
Heroes 2 doesn't have monocultured castles except the Knight which is based on medieval England/Germany. You are hinting on the same thing later in your message: "This means, I think, you shouldn't make things too complicated and grab the best parts from each culture and use those.
(The Dervish faction does the same. It combines Arabian influences like acolytes and genies with ancient-Egyptian influences (Anubite). The binding factor in this case is also the environment: the desert.)"

Quote :
I don't see how the Barbarian faction represents Inca or Aztec culture, but that's not really the point.
Ain't the pyramid hinting at something? Try looking over the Goblin and Ogre creature concepts. Smile

Quote :
And personally I think if you're going for the Inca/Aztec/Mayan theme, you should add some bird to the faction line-up, because these temples were mostly on very high places, where giant birds (like the Andes Condor) reign supreme. This is reflected in the fact that warriors of these tribes used feathers in their outfits.  
No, we shouldn't add any birds. The niche of a giant bird is already taken by the Roc (plus Griffin and Phoenix) and there is no more.
Forget about general real life places, we are being placed in very, very strict limitations of Heroes 2 concept.

Quote :
So, I think if you're going to go for a very strictly interpretation of the cultures
No, we are not going anywhere.
Heroes 2 concepts intend simplicity and cliches in their graphics, be it fairy tales or classic fantasy like Tolkien, everything multiplied to an imagination of a western civilian.

Quote :
Volcano in the background? Sure, why not. This is fantasy guys.
We should wait with the volcanoes, they might fit much more for another faction.

Quote :
What I really like about this theme is that the (tier 7) praying mantis really fits.
The trouble is that the giant mantis is not a fairy-tale creature, so that its priority is lowered harshly.

Dude, we have thought 1000 times about everything. Currently there is no better option than the one which is presented. The lineup cannot exist separately from faction concept, faction design, faction gameplay, etc. Everything is blending together and changing one thing leads to a total crash.

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buffkaz
Nomad
Nomad
buffkaz

Messages : 74
Quality Points : 40
Registration Date : 2015-10-25
Location : Netherlands

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PostSubject: Re: Witch Faction Discussion   Witch Faction Discussion Icon_minitime2015-11-03, 05:00

I probably misunderstood the first post. I thought you guys were arguing about a choice which has to be made between the Aztec, Inca or Maori cultures.

Forget about the first part of my posting in which I'm trying to find arguments for each culture, because that doesn't make sense anymore.

But my conclusion is the same as yours, in fact I'm very much on the same line as you are. Although my input wasn't really useful Embarassed

Maybe the ideas I had about a Jungle/Swamp mix could help you guys to solve the problem of the gloomy, muddy and dirty style (like the H3 Fortress faction).
If not, It's obviously fine. I'm just really curious about the direction you're heading.

Btw I always saw the Cyclops pyramid as a sort of Alien structure, which I couldn't explain. But now that you mention it, it looks somewhat like a Mayan pyramid. Although the turquoise glowing point still makes me wonder
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Orzie
Master Modder
Master Modder
Orzie

Messages : 1940
Quality Points : 780
Registration Date : 2014-12-12
Age : 27
Location : Tomsk, Russia

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PostSubject: Re: Witch Faction Discussion   Witch Faction Discussion Icon_minitime2015-11-03, 05:28

Well, the glowing in fact might be simply for general beauty (green fits fine there).

Heroes 2 didn't hint on the sci-fi background of the series (although the Titan is obviously a mechanical creature resistant to Mind magic - Blind, Paralyze, Hypnotize, Berzerk; the Golems are not resistant to these, but it can be said that Titans are not created by Enrothians), although we can make some little tips: the Anubites in fact are also mechanical like Titans, and our new Devils will be classic Kreegans which are in fact aliens but no one knows about this fact (it's fine for us - no one will be protesting them this way)

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